The Ford Barn

marty in Ohio · 09-27-2016, 05:01 PM

Hey, Guys,
I'm a model A guy, but a friend, without computer access, recently bought a '51 F 1 pickup. It had an electric fuel pump but he wants to make it original. We took off the electrical and the mechanical pump was still on the truck but unhooked. We understand it is a "double action" pump (whatever that means.)
Evidently it provides some extra vacuum. Can this pump be rebuilt? Does the truck really need this kind of pump? Would a regular mechanical pump from a V8 flathead work?
Us Model A guys don't really speak fuel pump. What can you tell us?
Marty

Bob C · 09-27-2016, 05:14 PM

Is this what it looks like?

Bob

51 MERC-CT · 09-27-2016, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marty in Ohio

Hey, Guys,
I'm a model A guy, but a friend, without computer access, recently bought a '51 F 1 pickup. It had an electric fuel pump but he wants to make it original. We took off the electrical and the mechanical pump was still on the truck but unhooked. We understand it is a "double action" pump (whatever that means.)
Evidently it provides some extra vacuum. Can this pump be rebuilt? Does the truck really need this kind of pump? Would a regular mechanical pump from a V8 flathead work?
Us Model A guys don't really speak fuel pump. What can you tell us?
Marty

A single action pump will work and new ones are available at various vendors.

rotorwrench · 09-27-2016, 05:36 PM

The double action fuel/vacuum pumps are still available from parts sources and kits are available too. They can be rebuilt but you have to find a rebuilder that has kits compatible with modern ethanol mix fuels. The vacuum pump backs up the windshield wipers. It's handy to have but not absolutely necessary.

marty in Ohio · 09-28-2016, 06:40 AM

Thanks for your input. My friend is sort of a purest, and when I phoned him and told him of the results from my inquiry he decided to go with a new double action unit. My "A" has vacuum wipers so I'm used to the way they work. Just sayin'
Marty

Seth Swoboda · 09-28-2016, 10:32 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Your friend can have an original fuel pump rebuilt by Charlie Schwendler in New York. he goes by CharlieNY here on the barn.

WestCoast · 09-29-2016, 12:05 AM

for modern fuel proof diaframs and carb rebuild kits call this number 1 203 360 5945 his name is Ken ct, xlnt carb builder and has good parts

tubman · 09-29-2016, 12:43 AM

I was thinking about installing a double action pump on my '51 Ford to help with the wipers. I even went so far as to buy one, but when I checked on a couple forums, I saw warnings that they are hard on push rods and the lobe on the cam because the load is essentially doubled. Since I don't really like to drive in the rain that much, it is still sitting on the shelf. Has anyone else heard this, or had any experience with it? I think Mercury's had DA pumps, so maybe they had special pushrods? Any feedback will be appreciated.

51 MERC-CT · 09-29-2016, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

I was thinking about installing a double action pump on my '51 Ford to help with the wipers. I even went so far as to buy one, but when I checked on a couple forums, I saw warnings that they are hard on push rods and the lobe on the cam because the load is essentially doubled. Since I don't really like to drive in the rain that much, it is still sitting on the shelf. Has anyone else heard this, or had any experience with it? I think Mercury's had DA pumps, so maybe they had special pushrods? Any feedback will be appreciated.

Have heard of a problem with the cam lobe but not the push rod.
Had one on my Merc. and it was never satisfactory.
The double pumper was a misguided attempt to correct the deficiency's in the vacuum wiper system.
I installed electric wipers to cure the problem.

JSeery · 09-29-2016, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marty in Ohio

My friend is sort of a purest

Not sure what that is referring to, if it was not original to the Truck how is putting an accessory back on being purest? I would think being purest would be to put a normal fuel pump back on. If you like the double pump nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't equate it with be a purest.

Frank Miller · 09-29-2016, 07:16 AM

Somewhere I have a Ford srvice bulletin warning about the aftermarket ones being hard on the cam lobe. This was from 48 or 49. I thought it funny because as someone said they went to this as an attempt to correct the intermittent wiper problem.

scooder · 09-29-2016, 07:26 AM

When the double action pumps are working properly, they are fantastic. To show how good they are. I have a 1959 Ford prefect with (now) a 997 cc (61 ci) engine. This has vacuum wipers. Now with a tiny engine like this vacuum is very quick to disappear, any little acceleration operation would pretty much stall the wipers. Bung any kind of grade at it, its no wiper time. I fitted a dual action pump, identical to the V8 ones except the operating arm. Now these wipers don't slow down at all, ever. I love them as I can adjust the speed of the wipers down to hardly moving, better than intermittent wipers. Any speed from stop to going like the clappers.
Trust me, if the pump is in good fettle, they are amazing.
I'd put one on my pickup in a heart beat it the electric ones pack up. I fitted the two speed electric ones a while back before I'd found out how good the vacuum stuff can work.
The spring tension in these is quite a bit more than double the single action, but no where near the tension of the valves and lifters acting on the camshaft.
Martin.

rotorwrench · 09-29-2016, 08:41 AM

Not all mercury cars came with the dual action pump. The two 51 Mercs I have were both assembled in Saint Louis and they were patterned for the dry western states so they just came with a standard pump. I imagine they were kind of a dealer add on in the dry states but may have been standard in the wet ones.

51 MERC-CT · 09-29-2016, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Not all mercury cars came with the dual action pump. The two 51 Mercs I have were both assembled in Saint Louis and they were patterned for the dry western states so they just came with a standard pump. I imagine they were kind of a dealer add on in the dry states but may have been standard in the wet ones.

That's curious because mine was assembled in the Saint Louis plant and it came with the double pumper.
And the parts book does list a single pumper that specifies for California use.

rotorwrench · 09-29-2016, 10:57 AM

My first car was ordered by a dealer in Garden City, KS and My 2nd one was ordered by a dealer in Clovis, NM so that probably was what made the difference. Both areas have consistently low rain fall per annum. Both cars were made within a month of each other in November of 1950. They are equipped with identical early type drive systems and accessories but have different trim & paint colors. They both have the 7RA pump. I know my Pop's car never had a replacement but the other car I can't be completely certain. The previous owner kept all repair receipts from the day they purchased it until around 1970 so anything could have happened after that. The last NM registration was in 1996.

09-27-2016, 05:01 PM	#1
marty in Ohio Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Elyria, Ohio Posts: 757	Double Action Fuel Pump Hey, Guys, I'm a model A guy, but a friend, without computer access, recently bought a '51 F 1 pickup. It had an electric fuel pump but he wants to make it original. We took off the electrical and the mechanical pump was still on the truck but unhooked. We understand it is a "double action" pump (whatever that means.) Evidently it provides some extra vacuum. Can this pump be rebuilt? Does the truck really need this kind of pump? Would a regular mechanical pump from a V8 flathead work? Us Model A guys don't really speak fuel pump. What can you tell us? Marty

09-27-2016, 05:36 PM	#4
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,441	Re: Double Action Fuel Pump The double action fuel/vacuum pumps are still available from parts sources and kits are available too. They can be rebuilt but you have to find a rebuilder that has kits compatible with modern ethanol mix fuels. The vacuum pump backs up the windshield wipers. It's handy to have but not absolutely necessary.

09-28-2016, 06:40 AM	#5
marty in Ohio Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Elyria, Ohio Posts: 757	Re: Double Action Fuel Pump Thanks for your input. My friend is sort of a purest, and when I phoned him and told him of the results from my inquiry he decided to go with a new double action unit. My "A" has vacuum wipers so I'm used to the way they work. Just sayin' Marty

09-28-2016, 10:32 AM	#6
Seth Swoboda Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 3,795	Re: Double Action Fuel Pump Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Your friend can have an original fuel pump rebuilt by Charlie Schwendler in New York. he goes by CharlieNY here on the barn.

09-29-2016, 12:05 AM	#7
WestCoast Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: oroville calif Posts: 893	Re: Double Action Fuel Pump for modern fuel proof diaframs and carb rebuild kits call this number 1 203 360 5945 his name is Ken ct, xlnt carb builder and has good parts Last edited by WestCoast; 09-30-2016 at 01:46 AM.

09-29-2016, 12:43 AM	#8
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,321	Re: Double Action Fuel Pump I was thinking about installing a double action pump on my '51 Ford to help with the wipers. I even went so far as to buy one, but when I checked on a couple forums, I saw warnings that they are hard on push rods and the lobe on the cam because the load is essentially doubled. Since I don't really like to drive in the rain that much, it is still sitting on the shelf. Has anyone else heard this, or had any experience with it? I think Mercury's had DA pumps, so maybe they had special pushrods? Any feedback will be appreciated.

09-29-2016, 07:16 AM	#11
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: Double Action Fuel Pump Somewhere I have a Ford srvice bulletin warning about the aftermarket ones being hard on the cam lobe. This was from 48 or 49. I thought it funny because as someone said they went to this as an attempt to correct the intermittent wiper problem. __________________ “The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound

09-29-2016, 07:26 AM	#12
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Double Action Fuel Pump When the double action pumps are working properly, they are fantastic. To show how good they are. I have a 1959 Ford prefect with (now) a 997 cc (61 ci) engine. This has vacuum wipers. Now with a tiny engine like this vacuum is very quick to disappear, any little acceleration operation would pretty much stall the wipers. Bung any kind of grade at it, its no wiper time. I fitted a dual action pump, identical to the V8 ones except the operating arm. Now these wipers don't slow down at all, ever. I love them as I can adjust the speed of the wipers down to hardly moving, better than intermittent wipers. Any speed from stop to going like the clappers. Trust me, if the pump is in good fettle, they are amazing. I'd put one on my pickup in a heart beat it the electric ones pack up. I fitted the two speed electric ones a while back before I'd found out how good the vacuum stuff can work. The spring tension in these is quite a bit more than double the single action, but no where near the tension of the valves and lifters acting on the camshaft. Martin.

09-29-2016, 08:41 AM	#13
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,441	Re: Double Action Fuel Pump Not all mercury cars came with the dual action pump. The two 51 Mercs I have were both assembled in Saint Louis and they were patterned for the dry western states so they just came with a standard pump. I imagine they were kind of a dealer add on in the dry states but may have been standard in the wet ones.

09-29-2016, 10:57 AM	#15
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,441	Re: Double Action Fuel Pump My first car was ordered by a dealer in Garden City, KS and My 2nd one was ordered by a dealer in Clovis, NM so that probably was what made the difference. Both areas have consistently low rain fall per annum. Both cars were made within a month of each other in November of 1950. They are equipped with identical early type drive systems and accessories but have different trim & paint colors. They both have the 7RA pump. I know my Pop's car never had a replacement but the other car I can't be completely certain. The previous owner kept all repair receipts from the day they purchased it until around 1970 so anything could have happened after that. The last NM registration was in 1996.