The Ford Barn

em1davis · 09-27-2014, 10:07 AM

Hi again...

As my year long brake job comes to an end I have encountered yet another snag. How do I get the drum and hub back on I've put the axle nut on and torqued it to 110lbs thinking that it would push the drum all the way on the the backing plate but to my surprise it did not.

Do I get to bust out my hammer again?

Thanks
Jason

jrhaelig · 09-27-2014, 12:11 PM

I had similar difficulties, Jason -

I would say pull it off first. Examine the shoes for rub marks and evidence of binding.

Be sure your taper key is facing the right direction and is seated correctly.

Then make sure your shoes are adjusted all the way in.

I had to massage the binding points off of my shoes with a block & 80 grit to get my drums on and rotating. It took many repetitions.

Drums should go on and off easily before being torqued onto the taper.

em1davis · 09-27-2014, 12:31 PM

Any pictures of the taper key installation? I didn't remove it when I did this job so I'm assuming it was correct to begin with.

Thanks

George/Maine · 09-27-2014, 06:37 PM

You don,t want to take another year, and remove the shoes and try with no shoes.

quickchange34 · 09-27-2014, 07:13 PM

The bevel part of the axle key goes out toward the axle end and facing up

Gary in La. · 09-27-2014, 07:41 PM

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The tapered end of the key should be facing down and towards the opposite end of the axel threaded end where it fits into the axel keyway slot which is also tapered. This gives full contact between the axel keyway and the hub keyway. This was passed on to me many years ago by old time Ford mechanics and all the hubs I ever pulled bears this out.

JM 35 Sedan · 09-27-2014, 09:45 PM

If you do not have the key in the axle slot correctly (and I believe Gary has it right), then the key will stick out too far at threaded end of axle, and axle nut will torque up against the end of the key, preventing hub/drum from going all the way on axle taper.

koates · 09-27-2014, 10:28 PM

Hi there, Garry and JM have it right. I think you have the key jammed up in the axle slot with the square end of the key facing in towards the diff. The tapered side of the key goes down in the bottom of the slot and towards the diff. You should be able to push the brake drum on the axle and seat it right on by hand or a light tap or two with a hammer. Don't use the axle nut to force it on. That axle nut should be torqued to at least 200 ft. lbs. or a bit more. 110 ft. lbs. is way too low. Drive the car and re-torque that axle nut a couple of times after each short drive. If you don't do that then a broken axle could be the result. Regards, Kevin.

George/Maine · 09-28-2014, 06:02 AM

If you have the same drums you took off. My guess your shoes are to wide wrong.
Remove them a try drum then.

supereal · 09-28-2014, 01:19 PM

Check the rim of the open side of the drum for a wear ring. These can get large if the drums haven't been turned before reassembly with new shoes. If the ring is fairly deep, be sure to check the drum for excess wear. If it measures more than .060, it could be dangerous. Due to the scarcity of used good drums, and the price of repros, too many just put them back on the car. If the rim ring isn't too large, just have a good shop remove it on a brake lathe, along with a skim cut to renew the surface.

em1davis · 10-02-2014, 07:57 PM

So I think the key is wrong, how do I pull that key out now, I can tell you the drum was on there before with the key in that current position and it was not fun. There is no apparent wear on the drum, and the wheel was spinning with it as far on as I had it so I don't think the shoes were rubbing. See the attached images of the key.

Talkwrench · 10-02-2014, 08:56 PM

Try a fine screwdriver under it and tap it up with a hammer..

Yes its upside down back to front ; o )

George/Maine · 10-03-2014, 01:42 PM

I don't have something to go by but a book.
But is the parking brake lever to go on the back side.
Looks like on outside.
The key looks ok.
"Parking brake is on backwards".

Kube · 10-03-2014, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

If you do not have the key in the axle slot correctly (and I believe Gary has it right), then the key will stick out too far at threaded end of axle, and axle nut will torque up against the end of the key, preventing hub/drum from going all the way on axle taper.

John,
You and Gary are in fact correct in the placement of the key.

The key placement depicted is both backward and upside - down.

em1davis · 10-03-2014, 05:43 PM

Well the Key was not my problem, the shoes don't appear to be the problem since I can spin the hub by hand and not feel the shoes dragging.

You can see in the picture how far the bearing reaching before it binds by the grease mark.

Any other thoughts.

Or anybody in the Austin, TX area want to swing by in the near future.

Thanks
Jason

Kube · 10-03-2014, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by em1davis

Well the Key was not my problem, the shoes don't appear to be the problem since I can spin the hub by hand and not feel the shoes dragging.

You can see in the picture how far the bearing reaching before it binds by the grease mark.

Any other thoughts.

Or anybody in the Austin, TX area want to swing by in the near future.

Thanks
Jason

Have you removed the key(s) and tried to install the drum(s)? Is this the same issue on both sides?

39topless · 10-03-2014, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrhaelig

I had similar difficulties, Jason -

I would say pull it off first. Examine the shoes for rub marks and evidence of binding.

Be sure your taper key is facing the right direction and is seated correctly.

Then make sure your shoes are adjusted all the way in.

I had to massage the binding points off of my shoes with a block & 80 grit to get my drums on and rotating. It took many repetitions.

Drums should go on and off easily before being torqued onto the taper.

Right on!!! Shoes are binding. Turn them all the way in.

36and63 · 10-03-2014, 06:52 PM

I think you need to turn the key 180 degrees and flip it over. The chamfer should be on the bottom opposite of what you have now. The way you have it now the key is being pressed towards the center when you tighten the nut. I had the same problem and when correct will tighten properly. When correct it will allow the drum to seat itself and you will know it. Don't tighten until you know it is seating itself or you will damage and really have problems.
Pat

AnthonyG · 10-03-2014, 06:54 PM

I'm with 39topless and kube, pretty sure that is the prob. Crank the shoes in the CCW direction with the adjuster a bunch. This will close the shoes smaller dia. Once your drum is on you adjust in the CW direction with adjusting post till the drum won't turn, then back off in the CCW direction again till they drag slightly.

Andy · 10-03-2014, 06:58 PM

I am very hesitant to offer bad news. The shoes are on backwards as well as the emergency brake stuff. I just checked with the green bible. Everything big always goes forward. The big end of the cylinders and the long shoes. The cylinders are on right. Start by switching the shoes and brakes. Maybe there is an interferance with the emergency brake stuff.

09-27-2014, 12:11 PM	#2
jrhaelig Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Bridgewater, New Jersey Posts: 264	Re: Putting Drums back on I had similar difficulties, Jason - I would say pull it off first. Examine the shoes for rub marks and evidence of binding. Be sure your taper key is facing the right direction and is seated correctly. Then make sure your shoes are adjusted all the way in. I had to massage the binding points off of my shoes with a block & 80 grit to get my drums on and rotating. It took many repetitions. Drums should go on and off easily before being torqued onto the taper. __________________ John Haelig Bridgewater, NJ 1939 Ford Pickup 1963 Lincoln Continental 1939 Buick

09-27-2014, 12:31 PM	#3
em1davis Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 49	Re: Putting Drums back on Any pictures of the taper key installation? I didn't remove it when I did this job so I'm assuming it was correct to begin with. Thanks

09-27-2014, 06:37 PM	#4
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Putting Drums back on You don,t want to take another year, and remove the shoes and try with no shoes.

09-27-2014, 07:13 PM	#5
quickchange34 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: charlottesville, Va. Posts: 589	Re: Putting Drums back on The bevel part of the axle key goes out toward the axle end and facing up

09-27-2014, 07:41 PM	#6
Gary in La. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Louisiana Posts: 866	Re: Putting Drums back on Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The tapered end of the key should be facing down and towards the opposite end of the axel threaded end where it fits into the axel keyway slot which is also tapered. This gives full contact between the axel keyway and the hub keyway. This was passed on to me many years ago by old time Ford mechanics and all the hubs I ever pulled bears this out.

09-27-2014, 09:45 PM	#7
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: Putting Drums back on If you do not have the key in the axle slot correctly (and I believe Gary has it right), then the key will stick out too far at threaded end of axle, and axle nut will torque up against the end of the key, preventing hub/drum from going all the way on axle taper. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein*

09-27-2014, 10:28 PM	#8
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,078	Re: Putting Drums back on Hi there, Garry and JM have it right. I think you have the key jammed up in the axle slot with the square end of the key facing in towards the diff. The tapered side of the key goes down in the bottom of the slot and towards the diff. You should be able to push the brake drum on the axle and seat it right on by hand or a light tap or two with a hammer. Don't use the axle nut to force it on. That axle nut should be torqued to at least 200 ft. lbs. or a bit more. 110 ft. lbs. is way too low. Drive the car and re-torque that axle nut a couple of times after each short drive. If you don't do that then a broken axle could be the result. Regards, Kevin.

09-28-2014, 06:02 AM	#9
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Putting Drums back on If you have the same drums you took off. My guess your shoes are to wide wrong. Remove them a try drum then.

09-28-2014, 01:19 PM	#10
supereal Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	Re: Putting Drums back on Check the rim of the open side of the drum for a wear ring. These can get large if the drums haven't been turned before reassembly with new shoes. If the ring is fairly deep, be sure to check the drum for excess wear. If it measures more than .060, it could be dangerous. Due to the scarcity of used good drums, and the price of repros, too many just put them back on the car. If the rim ring isn't too large, just have a good shop remove it on a brake lathe, along with a skim cut to renew the surface.

10-02-2014, 08:56 PM	#12
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Putting Drums back on Try a fine screwdriver under it and tap it up with a hammer.. Yes its upside down back to front ; o ) __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

10-03-2014, 01:42 PM	#13
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Putting Drums back on I don't have something to go by but a book. But is the parking brake lever to go on the back side. Looks like on outside. The key looks ok. "Parking brake is on backwards". Last edited by George/Maine; 10-03-2014 at 01:54 PM.

10-03-2014, 06:52 PM	#18
36and63 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 212	Re: Putting Drums back on I think you need to turn the key 180 degrees and flip it over. The chamfer should be on the bottom opposite of what you have now. The way you have it now the key is being pressed towards the center when you tighten the nut. I had the same problem and when correct will tighten properly. When correct it will allow the drum to seat itself and you will know it. Don't tighten until you know it is seating itself or you will damage and really have problems. Pat

10-03-2014, 06:54 PM	#19
AnthonyG Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,163	Re: Putting Drums back on I'm with 39topless and kube, pretty sure that is the prob. Crank the shoes in the CCW direction with the adjuster a bunch. This will close the shoes smaller dia. Once your drum is on you adjust in the CW direction with adjusting post till the drum won't turn, then back off in the CCW direction again till they drag slightly. __________________ Nomad

10-03-2014, 06:58 PM	#20
Andy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kerrville, Tx Posts: 2,769	Re: Putting Drums back on I am very hesitant to offer bad news. The shoes are on backwards as well as the emergency brake stuff. I just checked with the green bible. Everything big always goes forward. The big end of the cylinders and the long shoes. The cylinders are on right. Start by switching the shoes and brakes. Maybe there is an interferance with the emergency brake stuff.