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Old 10-04-2021, 07:38 PM   #1
Lincoln29
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Default 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

I have a 1936 LB motor that I rebuilt, but it leaks to much out of the cotter pin under the clutch. I know the problem is in the retainer for the rear main cap.
I have a retainer in the block side, but don't have one in the cap side. What is the right retainer that will fit the cap? I have attached pictures of the cap and a retainer that I have, but it doesn't fit in the cap. What is the problem?

I never had the original ones that came with the block to compare.
Any help would be appreciated.
Jerry Hollenbaugh
574-952-4550 cell
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Old 10-04-2021, 07:48 PM   #2
petehoovie
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincoln29 View Post
I have a 1936 LB motor that I rebuilt, but it leaks to much out of the cotter pin under the clutch. I know the problem is in the retainer for the rear main cap.
I have a retainer in the block side, but don't have one in the cap side. What is the right retainer that will fit the cap? I have attached pictures of the cap and a retainer that I have, but it doesn't fit in the cap. What is the problem?

I never had the original ones that came with the block to compare.
Any help would be appreciated.
Jerry Hollenbaugh
574-952-4550 cell




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Old 10-04-2021, 08:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

Yep...you've got a 36 LB...that is the standard 36 LB rear slinger arrangement. Sometime during the 37 production year they changed the rear main cap to accept a diecast arrangement, similar to what is in the block portion of your engine, but slightly different on its o/d.
The pictured insert is for fitting into the cap of the 37 on engines. It will not fit your 36 cap. If you're a clever machinist, you could machine up a similar sort of thing and screw it to the back face of your existing cap, but the reality is, it'll still leak a bit of oil. They all do....
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Old 10-04-2021, 09:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

These pictures are of a 36 LB rear main cap, like yours, that I modified to take a positive seal. I had to grind the slinger off of the crankshaft obviously. The insert that goes into the block is changed to a later model style that accepts a rope seal. But, see how I screwed it into the rear face of the cap? You could do something similar but with the same profile as the 37 insert in your possession. Good luck!
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Old 10-04-2021, 09:13 PM   #5
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

if someone has a picture of the correct piece I can check to see if I have one
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Old 10-04-2021, 09:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

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Quote:
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These pictures are of a 36 LB rear main cap, like yours, that I modified to take a positive seal. I had to grind the slinger off of the crankshaft obviously. The insert that goes into the block is changed to a later model style that accepts a rope seal. But, see how I screwed it into the rear face of the cap? You could do something similar but with the same profile as the 37 insert in your possession. Good luck!



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Old 10-04-2021, 09:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

if someone has a picture of the correct piece I can check to see if I have one

He has the correct piece, that's how Henry made it!
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Old 10-05-2021, 12:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

This, out of a service bulletin
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Old 10-05-2021, 01:11 AM   #9
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

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This, out of a service bulletin
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Old 10-05-2021, 06:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

It looks like I need a 18-6335 seal retainer. Does anyone out there have one of these?
Thanks guys for all your help.
Jerry
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Old 10-05-2021, 08:18 AM   #11
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

I don't think you're understanding what Brian said . . . there is no standard part that fits your cap.

Brian did his own custom modifications to the cap AND the crankshaft. He removed the 'slinger' from the crank (the crank grinder did this work), modified the rear cap for his custom rope/slinger assembly (screwed into the cap itself) and then used the later block-side cast piece that accepts a rope seal.

Again - there was no rope seal in 1936 . . .
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Old 10-05-2021, 09:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

Yes your right. They didn't put the seal in the cap. Only in the block side. Thanks again for keeping me straight.
Not sure what to do. I can't leave it that way. Leaks way to much. I have other early flat-heads and they all leak, but nothing like this one. It has 50Lbs oil pressure. Do you think that could have anything to do with it.
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Old 10-05-2021, 01:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

OK, note in the photo of my modified cap, I have fitted a return pipe? If you look at your cap, you'll notice the return hole for the oil is threaded...a very fine thread. Thing is, and particularly with a high volume pump, that crankshaft windage, in looking for paths to escape, will use that threaded drain hole and blow out through that labyrinth, taking oil with it. So, if you make and fit a pipe into that threaded hole, with the other end of the pipe long enough to be continually immersed in the oil in the pan, the oil coming through the rear main can return to the oil pan, and the windage escape route in that area is reduced.
Ford actually supplied such a return pipe in some engines. Here is one currently listed on eBay; https://www.ebay.com/itm/113767951221
I have no affiliation with the seller.
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Old 10-05-2021, 02:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

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Ford actually supplied such a return pipe in some engines. Here is one currently listed on eBay; https://www.ebay.com/itm/113767951221



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The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others....

"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"
"We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0

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Old 10-05-2021, 02:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

Thanks Peter, Jerry, you'll possibly have trouble fitting that pictured original return pipe if you're running a later oil pump, but you should get the idea....I configure mine to suit my application.
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Old 10-05-2021, 07:59 PM   #16
Lincoln29
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

Brian:
I took the original rear main and starting to machine it to fit the 78-6336 rear main seal retainer. Just like the one from the up grade in the Ford bulletin. Is this not a good idea? Have any of you tried this before?
I have a rear main from a 37 to compare it with. Hope I am not making a mistake.
Did it make a great difference to put the pipe on the cap like you mentioned?
Should I put a tube on the main cap, even if I do the machine work?
You have been a great help.
Jerry
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Old 10-05-2021, 08:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

Jerry, Yes, if you do all those modifications, you will definitely cut down on the oil blowing out into the clutch area.
The return pipe on eBay has a built in check valve...I don't worry about that, I just use an open ended tube, but ensure it reaches the bottom of the pan so it is always immersed in oil. Just be careful, when fitting it into the cap, that you don't screw it in too far; that will have the effect of creating a bit of a dam. You want a nice, unrestricted flow back into the pan. Good luck.
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Old 10-06-2021, 01:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

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Yes your right. They didn't put the seal in the cap. Only in the block side. Thanks again for keeping me straight.
Not sure what to do. I can't leave it that way. Leaks way to much. I have other early flat-heads and they all leak, but nothing like this one. It has 50Lbs oil pressure. Do you think that could have anything to do with it.
If the rear main journal on the crank has any wear or ground on the low side of the specs 50 lbs of oil pressure will for sure push oil out . I always ask the crank grinder to leave the rear main full or on the high side of the specs.
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Old 10-06-2021, 01:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

Here's what I did on my 35 LB
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21404

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Old 10-06-2021, 01:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: 1936 LB Rear Main Seal Retainer

Dave does it like me...
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