39 deluxe wiring diagram part 2

[36 ford]

We're back with a new round questions:

1 We have a few wires we can't ID
In the pics we have out of the harness, 3 wires to the Volt. Reg. We think should be 4. The wiring harness # is 91A-14401-D we are using.
We have a red wire that exits the harness near the solenoid. In our old harness the red wire exited with the generator wires. We also have a yellow wire with thick black striping that exits the harness near the generator but too short to reach the generator.

See pics to help

The Bob and Phil show

[JSeery]

A 39 MAY only have three wires to the voltage regulator, the forth wire would be a ground wire that was added on all later models. The heavy Yellow/Black wire should be the wire from the voltage regulator to the battery side stud on the fuse and/or generator to voltage regulator. The Red wire is the coil wire, almost looks like this is wired up to use a resistor bypass during starting! Noticed that the starter solenoid is not correct for this year car, but would be with the resistor bypass. A little strange.

[36 ford]

Thanks, Jerry.

What does the yellow/black wire go to? It is seen in pic #1 near oil filler
And where does the red wire go to ? (seen in the 2nd picture)

[adileo]

Hard to tell but that red wire looks like it may ground engine to firewall

[JSeery]

Hard to tell where wires go without knowing where they come from. Lets try one at a time, does the Red wire go to the coil? Red is the color Ford uses for coil wires.

On the Yellow and Black wire you may have to go an end to end test to see what it connects to. They are commonly power wires, Ford uses Sold Yellow & Yellow/Black wire for power. Also the size of it indicates power.

Back to the voltage regulator, There are three terminals, Armature, Field & Battery. Armature connects to the generator Armature post and Field to the Field post (looks like what you have) and Battery goes to the Battery side of the fuse. Later years added a Ground wire that goes from the generator to the voltage regulator mounting screws. Goes the generator you are using have a ground post on it? How about a photo of the generator connections.

Edit: OK, I see the last photo is the generator connections! Looks like there is a ground post on the generator, I would run a wire from it to the mounting screws on the voltage regulator (like the 40s and later are wired).

[JSeery]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

You have a solid Yellow wire connected to the voltage regulator, per the wiring diagram, a solid Yellow wire should connect the starter solenoid to the battery side of the fuse and a Yellow/Black wire should connect the voltage regulator to the same battery side of the fuse.

I see two Yellow wires to the battery side of the solenoid, what do they connect to? One should go to the fuse terminal and the other wire should be a Yellow/Green and go to the horn relay. The Black wire goes to the starter button, that looks correct.

Are the two front post of the starter solenoid jumpered with a metal strip? What is that about?

[JSeery]

Found something interesting on a 40 Merc wiring diagram. There are two wires from the starter solenoid, solid Yellow and Yellow/Green. Yellow/Green goes to horn relay, but the Yellow wire goes straight to the voltage regulator BAT terminal and then a Yellow/Black wire goes from this same voltage regulator BAT terminal to the Relay (would be the fuse on a Ford). Then a Yellow/Black from the voltage regulator ARM to the generator ARM and a Black wire from the voltage regulator FLD to generator FLD. And still no ground wire from the generator to the regulator.

[JSeery]

This 40 wire routing diagram also shows both the Yellow wire to the starter solenoid and the Yellow/Black wire to the CB. I'm guessing there were a lot of changes going on in the wiring and there are variations in the wiring diagrams. There would certainly not be anything wrong with wiring it this way.

[bbrust]

Jerry, We really appreciate your help and your quick replies. Phil mentioned the harness that we used earlier. Using that harness, I followed the under dash diagram that you created in June which was great and made our job much easier. All of the colors matched except for a yellow wire that we've discussed before. This yellow wire exits the harness in the area of the gauges and I suspect that it's purpose is to run thru the amp meter and than to the fuse panel. However, as you know the 39 has a Battery gauge and not an amp meter.
Today, we installed the battery and sorry to say nothing worked. The yellow and Yellow/black wires attached to the battery side of the solenoid were hot but we had nothing on the Starter side. The Push button wire was installed on one of the small solenoid terminals. I believe that the other small terminal is for coil starting voltage (supplies 12 volts to start and then reduces to 6 volts). The solenoid is grounded to the firewall. I then checked the voltage regulator and nothing had power. Under the dash, I could find no power. Checked ignition switch, light switch, interior lights, etc. all were cold. I then check the long yellow wire that I discussed above and there was power. Could this wire supply all of the power? Should I connect this wire up to the fuse panel?
In one of your other replies you mentioned that the red wire that we were questioning was for the coil. I'm sure that's correct but I was concerned because it is not nearly long enough to reach the coil.
You also mentioned grounding the generator. I had already grounded it to the intake manifold when I saw your reply. Any problem with that?
To make things worse, the car has a Mallory distributor with a MSD coil. There were 2 electric fans and wires that seemed to be running everywhere. Once we get power inside the car and get the lights working, we'll tackle the distributor/coil.
Thanks, Bob

Thanks, Bob

[JSeery]

This is a copy of an email reply I just sent you:

Think I can help a little bit. There were a lot of changes going on in these years and the wiring diagrams do not keep up with the changes. You can tell by looking at the 1940 Ford and the 1940 Merc diagrams what some of the changes were.


1. Ford (and Merc) were not using the ground wire from the generator to the voltage regulators in these years. I think it was added in late 1940. It was used on 1941 and later cars. The reason was issues with getting a good ground through the generator case and then through the engine itself and back to the body and frame to the battery. For the regulator to work at it's best it is better to have a direct ground from the generator to the regulator case/mount.


2. In some of the 1940 Ford and Merc diagrams, the wiring from the regulator to the dash fuse panel is different. They started running a wire directly from the starter solenoid to the regulator (yellow) and then a wire from the same post on the regulator to the fuse or later circuit breaker. This was most likely for the same reason, to provide a direct connection.


3. I am fairly sure the Red wire is a coil resistor bypass that would be activated when cranking the starter like what was used on later model Fords. Don't think there is any way to hook it up without changing the starter solenoid to a different style.


What I think is going on here is you have a later replacement harness (or one built to match a replacement) that incorporated some of the later wiring updates.

I would connect that Yellow wire to either the fuse post or the voltage regulator BAT post. Both should work.

[JSeery]

I don't understand the starter solenoid in the photo, does not look correct at all. Have you checked out how it works? Does providing a ground to the front post activate (click) it? It looks like a solenoid that requires a HOT input, not a ground. Are you running (+) or (-) ground? If the start solenoid requires a HOT input then you may need a different type of start button (two post vs one post).

[bbrust]

I wired the solenoid as follows: Yellow and Yellow/Black wires to the battery cable side; Starter wire to the opposite large connection side pole; Black starter button wire to the right small terminal; No wire connected to the left small terminal. I believe a coil resistor bypass wire from the MSD Coil was connected here. The only solenoid ground is the mounting bracket to the firewall. The car was previously converted to 12 volt neg ground and did run with the current solenoid. Bob

[JSeery]

A 12v neg ground solenoid is a completely different animal than a 6v pos ground (original type) solenoid! Are you currently wiring it as 6v or 12v and pos or neg ground?

[36 ford]

12 volt negative ground

[JSeery]

Ok, are you using the same starter button that was used before? And is there power to the button? The starter push button has to be of the two lead type with power supplied to one side at all times. When you press the start button you are connecting 12v positive to the starter relay (solenoid). The solenoid needs to be well grounded. The original Ford 6v (+) ground system used a single lead starter push button that provided a ground to the starter solenoid.

Your wiring harness would not have this wire (power to the starter button) included. I would run a wire from the battery side of the starter solenoid to the starter button. You can use the harness wire from the button back to the solenoid and it will connect to the "S" terminal. You can not use the original Ford ballast resistor to the coil. Assuming you are using a ~1.5 Ohm coil you will need a ~1.5 Ohm resistor (for a total of around 3 Ohms). These are typically the fairly large ceramic resistors.

You can wire a bypass to the coil from the "I" terminal of the starter solenoid directly to the coil to bypass it during startup. (that is most likely what the other Red wire is).

[JSeery]

Went back are reread the original post. All this time everyone has been assuming you were working with an original 6v (+) ground system!!! The diagram I drew up was for a 6v. There is not a lot of difference, but they are different. Like I just posted, you need a two post push button that provides power TO the start solenoid and a 12 coil resister (not the original Ford 6v resister). I am now assuming the polarity on the coil is correct (HOT to + and - to distributor) and that the generator is 12v with the correct polarity coupled with a 12v voltage regulator.

You will also have to have a voltage reducer on the wire to the gauges (if it is not already there).

[JSeery]

I reworked the changes into the diagram I built earlier.

[bbrust]

Thanks again for your time and help. I apologize if we weren't clear about the history. This car has been 12 volt neg ground since Phil bought. The wiring was a mess with a combination of old harness wires, aftermarket plastic wires, bare wires and household twist connectors. Phil asked me to help get it running and and help aligning the hood and trunk. I replaced the existing electric fuel pump and ran a new stock style wire harness to the rear of the car and we were able to get it running and had working lights in the rear. We then replaced the 91A-14401 harness using your diagram to connect the circuits. We started this thread yesterday once we connected the battery and had no power. In post #10 you suggested that Iconnect the Yellow wire to either the fuse post or the voltage regulator BAT post. I'll do that today. Hopefully that will give us power.Thanks for you updated diagram. The car does have a ballast resister on the coil. I'll make sure that it's connected to the red wire. I'll also check the started button and solenoid. Thanks, Bob

[JSeery]

I would disconnect the wire to the gauges unless there is a voltage reducer in place, they need 6v only to them! Sounds like your making progress.

[bbrust]

We bought a Ford style IVR from one of the Ford vendors to reduce the gauge voltage. One of the tabs broke off the first time I pushed the wire on. Waiting on a replacement, but in the meantime the power to the gauges is disconnected.