The GREAT Ms. American 3.14159's Left Brake Light Won't Light Mystery Caper

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Do the turn signals cancel after a turn?

Hey Mr. K, yes, but the Steering Wheel has to be returned to "Straight Ahead" for that to happen, which doesn't happen when parking Ms. American in the Car Port. Also, the Turn Signal isn't something that I have been checking on. Will start doing that after this little episode.

I mentioned previously that the Brake Lights don't always go off when the Brake Pedal is released. Am suspecting that the NEW Hydraulic Brake Light Switch (that YOU recommended) doesn't release the 45 PSI pressure every time. But have started to "jiggle" the Brake Pedal before getting out of the old Gal, and then checking the Brake Lights to make sure they are OFF.

Anyway, how have you been? Hope you are well. Take care.

JC

[KULTULZ]

Anyway, how have you been? Hope you are well. Take care.

SOS - Different Day JC.

Keep your eye on that switch. If the brake lamps are hanging, unplug the switch and see what happens. Might be a bad RESIDUAL PRESSURE VALVE in the MC also. It is a single reservoir still?

Make sure you take care of her. Am counting on you ...

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

SOS - Different Day JC.

Hey Mr. K, "SOS"? "Different Day"? Pretty cryptic there Mr. K. Would you care to elucidate?

Keep your eye on that switch. If the brake lamps are hanging, unplug the switch and see what happens.

Am surmising that the Brake Lights would go OFF!

Might be a bad RESIDUAL PRESSURE VALVE in the MC also. It is a single reservoir still?

Yes.

Make sure you take care of her. Am counting on you ...

Ms. American has been starting up better than ever recently. Have found the sweet spot on how she like to be fired up. Pull the Manual Choke all the way out, which completely blocks the Primary Venturi. Five pumps on the Accelerator, then start cranking, and as soon as the 3.14 fires, push the choke to half way. She starts right up, and as soon as she has stabilized, push the choke all the way in. When the Temperature Gauge starts to move, the old Gal settles into an 800 RPM idle. She seems to be quite happy and contented. We made a trip to Livingston last Friday, and she got to go 65 MPH for the 13 miles there, and 13 miles back. Turbine smooth!

Anyway, all is well here. Take care.

JC

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by JCAllison

Hey Mr. K, "SOS"? "Different Day"? Pretty cryptic there Mr. K. Would you care to elucidate?

I elucidate daily ...

... wait a minute ... that was hallucinate ...

SAME-OL-SH!AT - DIFFERENT DAY

Am surmising that the Brake Lights would go OFF!

Yes. That will indicate a possible bad switch and/or residual pressure in the system.

Ms. American has been starting up better than ever recently. Have found the sweet spot on how she like to be fired up. Pull the Manual Choke all the way out, which completely blocks the Primary Venturi. Five pumps on the Accelerator, then start cranking, and as soon as the 3.14 fires, push the choke to half way. She starts right up, and as soon as she has stabilized, push the choke all the way in. When the Temperature Gauge starts to move, the old Gal settles into an 800 RPM idle. She seems to be quite happy and contented. We made a trip to Livingston last Friday, and she got to go 65 MPH for the 13 miles there, and 13 miles back. Turbine smooth!

Anyway, all is well here. Take care.

JC

You took her out and didn't stop @ DAIRY QUEEN and buy her an icey-cream?

BTW- On that switch, did the box say where it came from?

Be safe down there ...

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by JCAllison

don't have any idea where all these components actually are.JC

The turn signal switch is located in the hub of the upper steering column. In order to view it, it will be necessary to remove the steering wheel with a puller. First, you need to unplug the horn wire near the base of the steering gearbox and pull the horn wire out from the steering wheel hub (if it runs thru the steering shaft). Be careful to get the puller bolts in the steering wheel hub as far as they can go so you don't strip out the threads in the steering wheel hub. Loosen the large nut that holds the steering wheel on the shaft and run it all the way up so that it barely protrudes from the top of the shaft. Place a small piece of flat steel bar stock (about 1-1/2 inch long) on top of the nut and have your puller center bolt driven down upon that bar stock.
When the wheel pops off, remove the puller, then the nut and the steering wheel will lift off the shaft. You will then see the turn signal switch and actuator. Inspect the soldered connections of the wiring to see if one has come loose. If so, it would be best to disconnect all it's wiring from the junction block I mentioned before under the dash, and remove the switch for re-soldering the wire. The switch is removed by unscrewing the 3 small machine screws at the back side of the steering column hub.
Not sure how the wiring pulls out. I think on the '64's, the wiring runs inside the column. On the older models, there are metal conduits on the outside of the column that can easily be removed by pulling the spring clip and a bracket with one screw holding the conduit to the steering tube.

[JCAllison]

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Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

The turn signal switch is located in the hub of the upper steering column. In order to view it, it will be necessary to remove the steering wheel with a puller. First, you need to unplug the horn wire near the base of the steering gearbox and pull the horn wire out from the steering wheel hub (if it runs thru the steering shaft). Be careful to get the puller bolts in the steering wheel hub as far as they can go so you don't strip out the threads in the steering wheel hub. Loosen the large nut that holds the steering wheel on the shaft and run it all the way up so that it barely protrudes from the top of the shaft. Place a small piece of flat steel bar stock (about 1-1/2 inch long) on top of the nut and have your puller center bolt driven down upon that bar stock.

When the wheel pops off, remove the puller, then the nut and the steering wheel will lift off the shaft. You will then see the turn signal switch and actuator. Inspect the soldered connections of the wiring to see if one has come loose. If so, it would be best to disconnect all it's wiring from the junction block I mentioned before under the dash, and remove the switch for re-soldering the wire. The switch is removed by unscrewing the 3 small machine screws at the back side of the steering column hub.
Not sure how the wiring pulls out. I think on the '64's, the wiring runs inside the column. On the older models, there are metal conduits on the outside of the column that can easily be removed by pulling the spring clip and a bracket with one screw holding the conduit to the steering tube.

Hey Mr. D55, There is a set of instructions of this procedure in the 1964 Ford and Mercury Shop Manual, but it doesn't go into the detail that YOUR description does. Actually, both procedure descriptions are more than daunting. Fortunately, it was found that the reason the Left Brake Light wouldn't come ON was because the system was working as advertised!

Since the Brake Lights are routed through the Turn Signal Switch, the Turn Signals trump the Brake Lights.

What had happened was: The Ignition Switch was OFF, and the Turn Signal Wand was in the "down" (LEFT TURN) position. The Brake Lights work without the Ignition Switch being ON. The Turn Signals don't work without the Ignition Switch being ON. So with the Turn Signal Wand being in the "down" position, the Brakes were checked. Because the Turn Signal Switch was in the "Left Turn" position, the Left Brake Light wouldn't come ON.

The upshot of all this is that all that had to be done was to check the Brake Lights with the Turn Signal Wand in the "center" (OFF) position, and voila' both Brake Lights work as advertised!

WHEW! Was I relieved. Was seriously dreading having to mess with Ms. American's Wiring. Anyway, as William Shakespeare wrote: "All's well that ends well."

Thanks for taking the time, and making the effort to help solve this problem. It is very much appreciated. Hope this finds YOU doing well, and taking excellent care. Stay safe.

JC

[JCAllison]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

You took her out and didn't stop @ DAIRY QUEEN and buy her an icey-cream?

Hey Mr. K, There isn't a DAIRY QUEEN in Onalaska, or Livingston, but I DID get her $40.00 worth the gasoline at the Onalaska Conoco. She must really like it because she drinks a LOT of it!

BTW- On that switch, did the box say where it came from?

Just looked. It doesn't have that information.

Be safe down there ...

For sure. YOU too!

JC

[whalepirot]

Many thanks for the comments here, as I have repeat issues with NO brake lights. Everything else works as it should; i.e. turn signals (also cancel fine) and tail lights. My '57 F100 is totally stock but for front disk brakes and a dual master.

The stock high pressure switch for brake application was swapped for a low pressure switch, which worked (for a while). I cleaned/lightly lubed the original turn signal switch a couple times, finally replaced with a new (foreign made, da%$it). Brake lights worked for a while, now don't.... again.

I replaced the flasher, as somewhere I read a post that it fixed his brake light problem; not mine!

So, I'm back to the steering column switch as the probable culprit, but this sure has gotten old. I surmise that this issue is why the previous owner used separate rear lights (ugly) on the rear fenders; the very ones I removed when restoring and painting the truck.

Old vehicles; a never ending story! Thanks again, as I return to work on it.

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by whalepirot

I replaced the flasher, as somewhere I read a post that it fixed his brake light problem; not mine!

The flasher won't interfere with brake lights.

You might have a intermittent wiring/power problem. Are you checking to make sure the power wire to the brake light switch has power all the time?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by whalepirot

Many thanks for the comments here, as I have repeat issues with NO brake lights. Everything else works as it should; i.e. turn signals (also cancel fine) and tail lights. My '57 F100 is totally stock but for front disk brakes and a dual master.

The stock high pressure switch for brake application was swapped for a low pressure switch, which worked (for a while). I cleaned/lightly lubed the original turn signal switch a couple times, finally replaced with a new (foreign made, da%$it). Brake lights worked for a while, now don't.... again.
...

Most of the replacement brake light pressure switches are made off-shore and poor quality.
Next time the brake lights quit working slip the two wires off of the switch and temporarily connect them to each other with a short jumper wire, paperclip, etc.
If the brake lights come on, you have a bad pressure switch. If they don't light up, wiggle the turn signal lever a little to see if the brake lights work then.
Also check for loose connections in the Green brake light switch wire to the turn signal switch connections.

[whalepirot]

Originally Posted by 40cpe

The flasher won't interfere with brake lights.

You might have a intermittent wiring/power problem. Are you checking to make sure the power wire to the brake light switch has power all the time?

I saw no connection to the flasher but was out of ideas; hence I threw another part at the problem.

I was looking for a wiring diagram, here, as my manual is 7 hours away.

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Most of the replacement brake light pressure switches are made off-shore and poor quality.
Next time the brake lights quit working slip the two wires off of the switch and temporarily connect them to each other with a short jumper wire, paperclip, etc.
If the brake lights come on, you have a bad pressure switch. If they don't light up, wiggle the turn signal lever a little to see if the brake lights work then.
Also check for loose connections in the Green brake light switch wire to the turn signal switch connections.

Low and behold a wiring diagram appears, plus more info thereto! Going out to check again, as I think I found earlier that there is no power to the M/C switch. I came here before just jumping a hot wire to the wrong wire.

THANKS!! Added: Hot 12v to switch is okay, but the rear brake fluid level was too low, so checking the switching function is not an option until a full bleed is performed; not today.

[FEandGoingBroke]

This is an old thread, but I visited here reminiscing about my friend JC and how he left us too soon. I miss his style of writing that left no doubt of his intentions.

Hey KULTULZ, nice to see your name floating around still!

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by FEandGoingBroke

This is an old thread, but I visited here reminiscing about my friend JC and how he left us too soon. I miss his style of writing that left no doubt of his intentions.

Hey KULTULZ, nice to see your name floating around still!

I assume from your post Mr Allison has passed away? I admired him for his tenacity in keeping his Ford going. I hope somebody gets/got it that will respect it as he did.

[FEandGoingBroke]

Yes, he passed about two weeks after his last reply in this thread.

Mrs American PI will be coming home to me. James and I and the 3.14 have a long history together and I can’t wait to bring her home and do her justice for my incredibly eccentric friend JC.

[40cpe]

I sounds like she has found a worthy home. I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, and wish you the best.

[KULTULZ]

WHILE CAROUSING WITH MY BROWSER

Originally Posted by FEandGoingBroke

Yes, he passed about two weeks after his last reply in this thread.

Mrs American PI will be coming home to me. James and I and the 3.14 have a long history together and I can’t wait to bring her home and do her justice for my incredibly eccentric friend JC.

Ain't this a B!TCH ...

JC was good people, not many left.

JC's PROFILE HERE -

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/member.php?u=89708

Am the owner and caretaker of the world famous Ms. American 3.14159, the only 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, Four-Door, Hard-Top, Fast-Back, Police Interceptor that Google finds on the Whole World Wide Web.

Ms. American 3.14159,1964 Ford Galaxie 500,Model:64 4-Door Hardtop,Body:57B 4-Door Fastback,Police Interceptor,390 CID,330 HP,P-Code FE,Solid Lifters,Cast Iron Shorty Headers,Autolite 4100 C4AF-9510-DG Carb,Mustangs Etc.Manual Choke,3 Speed BorgWarner T85 Overdrive Transmission,4.11:1 Differential,Kelsey Hayes Severe Service Wheels,PerTronix Ignitor III HEI,60,000 Volt PerTronix FlameThrower HC Coil,Frantz Oil Cleaner,ChantillyBeige

I'll miss talking with you JC ...