Are these "Widow Maker" Wheels?

[luisv]

OK. We recently purchased a 1936 Stake truck. We have another thread where I will keeps tabs on the progress. This however is a bit more "specialized" a question and I rather post it separately to avoid the first thread going off on a tangent.

We've heard many stories about the wheels on Ford Big Trucks. Specifically, the split wheels or the infamous "widow makers". I've seen some threads about the wheels, but I did not see many photos of examples. If I read those correctly, the split rims did not come into use until later years. To be sure I rather just ask the experts and be sure.

Are these "widow makers"? Are these safe to put on the road with a truck that will be used?





If these are safe and we can get them serviced at a local truck tire service shop, it could be a game changer for us in terms of decisions we are making regarding axle swaps.

My top concern is the safety of these wheels. If they are good, then we may very well keep them and the banjo rear end.

[alan]

no the real bad widow maker wheel is actually a two piece rim., splits in the middle of the rim, hidden from view and it rust really bad. poor design. yours is actually a rim with a locking band and as long as it is not severally rust pitted on the lip where the band attaches it should be allright

[deuce lover]

These only became unsafe when the tire was inflated and the split ring did not sit properly.When I worked in a tire shop in the 60's we had a cage .We rolled the mounted tire and wheel and inflated in that cage.I heard of stories that the ring flew off as the tire was being inflated and the ring imbedding in the rafter of the shop.

[luisv]

Any suggestions on where I might pickup another two wheels? I'd like to go dually on this truck. I am assuming I can... Here a shot of the rear axle...

[Mike B]

You may run into tireshops/truck shops that will not service them at all, just because of the outer keeper ring.

[flatford8]

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Send me a PM....I have a complete parts truck........Mark

[Karl Wolf]

Whatever you do, DO NOT EVER inflate these from a tire change without the afore mentioned safety cage, at least put them upside down and use a clamp on air connecter... We would put the service lift down on them... I have heard stories from some of the old guys I worked with in the 1960's... I really believe they will take off an arm.

Karl

[expavr]

Most companies that deal with large truck/tractor tires will service the locking ring design rims. I would recommend you get the locking rings magnafluxed before using them. I found hairline cracks in two of the rings that were on the Tonners rims.

[Snouts out]

Not split but continuous rims.What may kill you,is breaking them down by yourself !

[truckdog62563]

Agree with what the others have said, but will add some detail. Your wheels are no doubt Budd Company products that have Firestone "RH" style outer rims. These are not to be confused with the "widow makers" that have the Firestone "RH-5°" outer rim design where the side ring and rim connect along the center line of the assembly. Most big truck shops still work on "RH" rims, but the old guys that know how to handle them are few anymore. I would not try to work on, or disassemble one yourself. The worst thing to do to is to try to force the ring to cooperate which will bend or break a ring. Finding replacement rings after 70 years will be a challenge. Add to that the fact that you shouldn't try to use some other ring design or different width of the "RH". The wheel companies all cautioned that mix matching components could also be dangerous.

One of the guys mentioned the risk of rust damage on wheels. To me the seam where the center disc is riveted to the rim is most likely to be a problem. Trucks left out in fields or yards and allowed to sink into the mud will have rust damage on the section exposed to Mother Earth for all the years.

Being that your truck is a 1936, it's wheels will be more narrow than later trucks. From the picture I'll guess the rims are 3.75" wide using the modern measurement criteria (measured down inside the rim across the inner rim base). Using the criteria in effect back then they would have been termed 5" (measured across the rim lips). For you guys who use the Green Bible, this old criteria is the system used there.

As for finding a couple to make it a DRW, you might tell us where you live. Shipping a 50+ lb wheel ain't cheap. I have one good used 3.75" here in central Illinois. I sell and ship wheels regularly and know that it can cost you more to ship than to buy wheels. Stu

[luisv]

Awesome info guys....

So going back to an option... Does anybody make a wheel I could put on there? Perhaps slightly wider? I'm concerned about the bolt pattern....

I live near an agricultural area in Dade... I might go ask a buddy locally about these...

[Scott H in Wheaton]

As you get further into your cool new project it would be most helpful if you update your profile to include your location.
That will avoid the needless posts about 'where are you'

Good luck with your project. I'm working on a 36 1/2 ton myself

[truckdog62563]

Tubeless 19.5" and 22.5" were available beginning in 1956, same 5 lug x 8" bolt pattern. Either will fit. The 19.5" was made in 5.25" and 6.00" widths and use 8R19.5" tires. The 22.5s were made in 5.25", 6.00", and 6.75" widths. The narrowest tire available today is a 9R22.5". These are spec'd for the 6.00" and 6.75" wide rims but not the 5.25". Guys use this tire of the 5.25", but it crowns and doesn't allow enough dual spacing to avoid rubbing under a load per the manuals. The 8R19.5" is 33.5-34" tall while the 9R22.5" is about 38". Stu

[big job]

Originally Posted by Karl Wolf

Whatever you do, DO NOT EVER inflate these from a tire change without the afore mentioned safety cage, at least put them upside down and use a clamp on air connecter... We would put the service lift down on them... I have heard stories from some of the old guys I worked with in the 1960's... I really believe they will take off an arm.

Karl

More so even If you use a cage You Are Not out of the woods yet, ya still
gotta put it on the truck. 2 yrs ago we were only changing ready to go
wheels and tires 3 piece Daytons 11-00- 20s (we were NOT changing tires
or inflating) this is on the rears ok you have to beat off the hoop on
the spyder to get the inner wheel off. Thats when It decided to explode
just by a whisker missing me and my kid. The ring and lock ring went a
good 400 feet right accross the street. We were deaf all day. And these are
not widow makers. Our service truck a F6 has widow makers -the fronts
are Ok cause if they take a crap they explode in- toward the springs, but
the rears explode out. Truck is kept inside the shop, solution is no air in
the outside tires. For what the truck carries four tires good enough.
Trust me I seen them blow (inocently parked) on a hot summer day, for no
reason. Back in the 70's one shop guy got blown thru the shop roof-he's
dead. Myself on any of these sob's put the wheel on, put chains thru the
hand holes before airing up.

[truckdog62563]

Ditto!

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Karl Wolf

Whatever you do, DO NOT EVER inflate these from a tire change without the afore mentioned safety cage, at least put them upside down and use a clamp on air connecter... We would put the service lift down on them... I have heard stories from some of the old guys I worked with in the 1960's... I really believe they will take off an arm.

Karl

PLEASE listen to Karl and Deuce!!! These can be quite dangerous! A friend of mine, back in the early 1970's lost a good part of his lower arm (hand included) when one of these "blew up".

[RPM]

Local man died a number of years ago when one of these let go. He had MANY years experience. (John and Ed's Service in Cedar Rapids IA) Was one of these men, can't remember which.

[Bob C]

This is the widow maker.

[BILL WZOREK]

I had an employee Give up 2 fingers Because the safty cage was in the other stall and he said nothing ever happens any how !!!! so why use the cage.

Bob C's Picture is correct.
I know of two local tire shops that will not even let those type of rims out of there shop.
One shop took a torch to them when I was there and they told the guy I don't care sue me you are not getting them back!!!!!

[malpais]

Don't know where you are located, but I have a 37 axle and wheels that I may soon get rid of (all or parts). Wheels have the "ring" - not two part wheels.

Don't know if they'd help you.

gordon

(Colorado)