The Ford Barn

Roadster62 · 09-23-2012, 03:59 PM

Hope that 180A does well at Hershey, maybe this will get you to the Annual Meeting as well. Bob

peters180a/170b · 09-23-2012, 06:12 PM

Well thank you ,, but as word has it ,,down in Tennessee the A.A.C.A Grand National meet there was a 1931 slant windshield black fordor sedan from Florida with a electric windshield motor and flat black paint sprayed over the gloss black frame in spots[ can't figure what was going on there?] but i was told by a good number of people in the know that from someone up in rank said to push this car up because the owner has a large check for A.A.C.A. National club. This is NOT a B.S.story. This is fact. I have more faith in the 5 people who told me...So Annual Meeting might be out...been done before...I was also told buy someone in the know i scored the highest in ALL model "A"s with a perfect score of 400...

Roadster62 · 09-23-2012, 11:53 PM

I can't add to that on the Forum. Bob

MCHinson · 09-24-2012, 07:55 AM

Peter,

Revealing a score to an owner is of course a violation of the rules for a judge in AACA. With that said, I can tell you that I have seen a bunch of 400 point cars in my years of AACA judging. You have an excellent car. I don't know anything about the car in Florida that you are talking about. I am not on the National Awards team but it is my understanding that they make nominations at all of the meets during the year. At the end of the season, the nominees are asked to submit four photos. (I know how that works because I have had a car nominated berfore, but have not won a national award). The team then reviews the photos and pick the winners from all of the photos. It is probably not a perfect system, but a perfect system would require having all of the cars come together at one place and have the national awards team inspect all of the nominated cars together. This would not be logistically possible in my opinion. I think that you have as much of a chance as any other Model A to win a national award. I don't really think that the national awards team cares who makes donations to the club. I would doubt the accuracy of anyone who spreads such a story.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 09-24-2012, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCHinson

Peter,

Revealing a score to an owner is of course a violation of the rules for a judge in AACA. With that said, I can tell you that I have seen a bunch of 400 point cars in my years of AACA judging. You have an excellent car. I don't know anything about the car in Florida that you are talking about. I am not on the National Awards team but it is my understanding that they make nominations at all of the meets during the year. At the end of the season, the nominees are asked to submit four photos. (I know how that works because I have had a car nominated berfore, but have not won a national award). The team then reviews the photos and pick the winners from all of the photos. It is probably not a perfect system, but a perfect system would require having all of the cars come together at one place and have the national awards team inspect all of the nominated cars together. This would not be logistically possible in my opinion. I think that you have as much of a chance as any other Model A to win a national award. I don't really think that the national awards team cares who makes donations to the club. I would doubt the accuracy of anyone who spreads such a story.

I would also hope/think this is very true just for the sake of that club's reputation.

I can say that this past year's recipient of The Ford Award was this car and I can assure you that I know this car owner well enough that money/donations did not "purchase" the award for him. Pete, I sincerely believe your car is worthy of that award too. Good Luck.

.

Bob-A · 09-24-2012, 09:03 AM

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I've got a good bud who is active in one of the national Model-T clubs. And he has told me about people "buying" high or higher awards at the big meets.

Back about '67 or '68, I was at the Ormond Beach AACA meet
and ran across a newly "restored" 1930 Packard boattail speedster in competion for an award. One side of the hood was up and lo & behold
the aluminum lower engine block had been silver painted and not left natural aluminum like original. Later on I met a judge and mentioned the fact to him. He said the judges were aware of the boo-boo, but the owner of the car was a very rich collector/restorer AACA member. So nothing was said!

Bob-A

peters180a/170b · 09-24-2012, 05:17 PM

Thank you Brent ,,and i did speak to the owner of the car you speak about at Tenn. He was surprised to win that award since i scored 97 points over his car at French Lick meet.My car for the past 3 years have been picked for the National Award ,,3 straight years and yes I KNOW FIRST HAND HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS .... In 1991 my 1930 Standard Roadster scored 399 at the Grand National meet at that same meet i JUDGED 1928/29 Model "A's. We as a team judged a 1929 coupe from Maryland and as a TEAM said to one another how did this car pass for a senior award ???? Well the CHIEF JUDGE told us to help this car along to at least make it to a third place...38 POINTS WERE TAKEN OFF ...and we stopped at that. Guess who won the FORD AWARD THAT YEAR....??? THE 1929 COUPE from Maryland and where did the CHIEF judge come from [MARYLAND] He claimed that my windshield wiper hardware should of been chromed and not Nickle plated at the Hershey meet.... So on a stack of Bibles and the soul of my Daughter i am telling the truth how it went down.I really don't care if you believe me or not, but this is fact. And as for knowing the score THE TEAM CAPTAIN [in 1991]told me my score .. I have been judging since 1979 and i do know a few judges on most teams. No they do not throw me a bone ! but people do find out their scores...

Blessyouboys · 09-24-2012, 05:35 PM

If you know how the system works, and you have evidently been playing the game for at least 11 years now, why are you complaining about it?

fordgarage · 09-24-2012, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peters180a/170b

Well thank you ,, but as word has it ,,down in Tennessee the A.A.C.A Grand National meet there was a 1931 slant windshield black fordor sedan from Florida with a electric windshield motor and flat black paint sprayed over the gloss black frame in spots[ can't figure what was going on there?] but i was told by a good number of people in the know that from someone up in rank said to push this car up because the owner has a large check for A.A.C.A. National club. This is NOT a B.S.story. This is fact. I have more faith in the 5 people who told me...So Annual Meeting might be out...been done before...I was also told buy someone in the know i scored the highest in ALL model "A"s with a perfect score of 400...

LOL, Sounds like total BS to me.

peters180a/170b · 09-24-2012, 06:16 PM

bringing out what goes on behind the curtains. I am glad you have L.O.L. before the BS...AND BLESSYOUBOYS,,, I HAVE THE SET OF BALLS TO SAY WHATS ON MY MIND.. I am putting them on notice to straighten out the issues.. Vince . i wish it was BS...

Roadster62 · 09-24-2012, 07:18 PM

Yes, National Awards takes the score into consideration, but they are looking at color slides of all vehicles that are nominated. You can open your garage door and take a front or rear photo and side views from inside.OR you can take your vehicle to a professional with a studio, or use a nice outdoor setting and take your own drop dead best photos and send them in. What slide do you think will look best at the Awards Banquet? Bob ..................Pete, your avitar photo isn't good enough.

peters180a/170b · 09-25-2012, 03:06 AM

I have sent for over the 3 years different pictures and more then 10 pictures. And this award is only for that year and meets. I have covered 4 meets this year. My car scored high point car at each meet. We did send super pictures.Even some from the MARC MAG. on the cover story.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 09-25-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob-A

I've got a good bud who is active in one of the national Model-T clubs. And he has told me about people "buying" high or higher awards at the big meets.

Back about '67 or '68, I was at the Ormond Beach AACA meet
and ran across a newly "restored" 1930 Packard boattail speedster in competion for an award. One side of the hood was up and lo & behold
the aluminum lower engine block had been silver painted and not left natural aluminum like original. Later on I met a judge and mentioned the fact to him. He said the judges were aware of the boo-boo, but the owner of the car was a very rich collector/restorer AACA member. So nothing was said!

Bob-A

Man, where does this stuff come from? There are only two national Model T clubs, --and only one of them gives awards. The Model T Ford Club International is the only one that has Judging, ...and I can tell you for a fact that your friend's info is TOTALLY inaccurate. The reason I know this is totally false is because I on the Board of Directors of that club, ...I am also the Ass't Chief Judge ...and I am the Awards committee for that club. Nobody has paid -or ever paid me nothing!!

One thing that probably needs to be pointed out in all of this accusatory jabber is that a field judge generally does not have a clue about scores or even special awards. Think about it, there are Chief Judges, Team Captains, and then Judges. While these judges are vital to adjudication of a vehicle, they are not privy to overall scoring or even special award selections. Therefore while these field judges may seem like they should be in the know, more often than not, they really do not have the privilege to know the facts from the ranking officials.

I will also go on to say that in most instances, that privilege of actually knowing the sensative information (scores, totals, award selection, etc.) is given to people who have the ability to keep it to themselves because they have a maturity level that affords them that opportunity to be "in the know". I think most would agree with me that the ones that like to boast about knowing this type information rarely are given those type duties or responsibilities due to their lack of maturity. Therefore their only way of leaking this information is to fabricate it based on what seems believable to them and thus these stories.

And Peter, what a comment! Just for the record, the car you saw in French Lick was not the same car that won the award since much work had been done to improve the car towards authenticity during that time.. The second side of that is, if your car had been in the running for the award at the same time, it is very likely your car would have been the recipient of this award instead of my customer's car however correct me if I am wrong but I don't think your car had been submitted for the award at that time.

.

peters180a/170b · 09-25-2012, 03:45 PM

Brent my car HAS been submitted for that award in 2009 , 2010 and 2011. He won it in 2011 last year. A repro covered parts car Vicky in 2010 . I did know you worked on that car after French lick because he did not win a MARC of EX. ,He did win the following year. I spoke to him for awhile in Tenn. after he drove down from the MARC meet in Wisc. And as for the 1931 Slant Fordor i have receiver 2 messages that people know that car[very well] and she gives $$$$ to the A.A.C.A. Library. I served as a Team captain so i know. everyone knows the score on the car they just judged when they tell the team captain their score. it's easy to add the scores up in ones head as the members tell the team captain their scoring. Yes and you are right no one on the field knows other then the owner[if around] and the special judge will know if you are picked for a special award.. They come around after all said and done and goes over the car again...sometimes 1 or 2 judges.. Been there and done that..

1931 flamingo · 09-25-2012, 05:25 PM

This reads like the BS from when my wife and I showed a Dalmatian................

Paul in CT

peters180a/170b · 09-25-2012, 06:09 PM

Paul in CT...... Most if not all your post really add up to nothing.. I think you like to just watch you post numbers add up??? Sometimes you are better off sitting on the side line...like this time.... Not to sound rude but BS is questioning me and my post.

Bob-A · 09-25-2012, 06:10 PM

Brent,

On the Model-T judging issue: Just passing on what was told to me by a good friend.

On the Packard/AACA issue: I was there.

Is has been many, many years since I was an officer/judge in a local
Antique car club. I never saw any favoritism then, but I could see how easy it would be.

Bob-A

fordgarage · 09-25-2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peters180a/170b

Paul in CT...... Most if not all your post really add up to nothing.. I think you like to just watch you post numbers add up??? Sometimes you are better off sitting on the side line...like this time.... Not to sound rude but BS is questioning me and my post.

Wow Pete,
What's up with that?
I think your comments apply to yourself more than anyone else.

BTW
In MARC judging, the points is all about the car, not the pompous ass that owns it.

The controversy around point judging is rarely about the car, it is most often about the pompous ass that owns the car. Just sayin.

jimalabam · 09-25-2012, 06:22 PM

Let's shutdown all this fine point talk and go touring...

peters180a/170b · 09-25-2012, 06:39 PM

First we are talking about A.A.C.A. awards [Not MARC] .This pompous ass that is the owner of the car would like a fair deal after 7 years of restoration , time , money , attending National meets[ 9 to date over 3 years]and you POINT OUT its about the car and NOT how much you write out the check for... Someone who knows the car very well and the woman said the car drives well but as far as the restoration will not get a MARC of EX....now i viewed the car in Tenn. and did need that little push..remember 5 point spread you need to win a Grand National award. And maybe Vince more people will step up and say more to correct the problems in Judging .People will say nothing with a remark you just made. With me i really don't give a rats ass but i do make a point and we will see in Dec. when the winner is announced.
.

09-23-2012, 03:59 PM	#1
Roadster62 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ridgefield, Ct Posts: 3,441	Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A Hope that 180A does well at Hershey, maybe this will get you to the Annual Meeting as well. Bob __________________ They don't have to run to be enjoyed. I'm here to enjoy the hobby, and enjoy the cars no matter what they look like. Most of the worlds problems are electrical. Last edited by Roadster62; 09-23-2012 at 11:53 PM.

09-23-2012, 06:12 PM	#2
peters180a/170b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Putnam Valley N.Y. Posts: 2,151	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automibile 180A Well thank you ,, but as word has it ,,down in Tennessee the A.A.C.A Grand National meet there was a 1931 slant windshield black fordor sedan from Florida with a electric windshield motor and flat black paint sprayed over the gloss black frame in spots[ can't figure what was going on there?] but i was told by a good number of people in the know that from someone up in rank said to push this car up because the owner has a large check for A.A.C.A. National club. This is NOT a B.S.story. This is fact. I have more faith in the 5 people who told me...So Annual Meeting might be out...been done before...I was also told buy someone in the know i scored the highest in ALL model "A"s with a perfect score of 400...

09-23-2012, 11:53 PM	#3
Roadster62 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ridgefield, Ct Posts: 3,441	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automibile 180A I can't add to that on the Forum. Bob __________________ They don't have to run to be enjoyed. I'm here to enjoy the hobby, and enjoy the cars no matter what they look like. Most of the worlds problems are electrical.

09-24-2012, 07:55 AM	#4
MCHinson Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 401	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A Peter, Revealing a score to an owner is of course a violation of the rules for a judge in AACA. With that said, I can tell you that I have seen a bunch of 400 point cars in my years of AACA judging. You have an excellent car. I don't know anything about the car in Florida that you are talking about. I am not on the National Awards team but it is my understanding that they make nominations at all of the meets during the year. At the end of the season, the nominees are asked to submit four photos. (I know how that works because I have had a car nominated berfore, but have not won a national award). The team then reviews the photos and pick the winners from all of the photos. It is probably not a perfect system, but a perfect system would require having all of the cars come together at one place and have the national awards team inspect all of the nominated cars together. This would not be logistically possible in my opinion. I think that you have as much of a chance as any other Model A to win a national award. I don't really think that the national awards team cares who makes donations to the club. I would doubt the accuracy of anyone who spreads such a story.

09-24-2012, 09:03 AM	#6
Bob-A Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central FL, USA Posts: 1,140	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I've got a good bud who is active in one of the national Model-T clubs. And he has told me about people "buying" high or higher awards at the big meets. Back about '67 or '68, I was at the Ormond Beach AACA meet and ran across a newly "restored" 1930 Packard boattail speedster in competion for an award. One side of the hood was up and lo & behold the aluminum lower engine block had been silver painted and not left natural aluminum like original. Later on I met a judge and mentioned the fact to him. He said the judges were aware of the boo-boo, but the owner of the car was a very rich collector/restorer AACA member. So nothing was said! Bob-A

09-24-2012, 05:17 PM	#7
peters180a/170b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Putnam Valley N.Y. Posts: 2,151	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A Thank you Brent ,,and i did speak to the owner of the car you speak about at Tenn. He was surprised to win that award since i scored 97 points over his car at French Lick meet.My car for the past 3 years have been picked for the National Award ,,3 straight years and yes I KNOW FIRST HAND HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS .... In 1991 my 1930 Standard Roadster scored 399 at the Grand National meet at that same meet i JUDGED 1928/29 Model "A's. We as a team judged a 1929 coupe from Maryland and as a TEAM said to one another how did this car pass for a senior award ???? Well the CHIEF JUDGE told us to help this car along to at least make it to a third place...38 POINTS WERE TAKEN OFF ...and we stopped at that. Guess who won the FORD AWARD THAT YEAR....??? THE 1929 COUPE from Maryland and where did the CHIEF judge come from [MARYLAND] He claimed that my windshield wiper hardware should of been chromed and not Nickle plated at the Hershey meet.... So on a stack of Bibles and the soul of my Daughter i am telling the truth how it went down.I really don't care if you believe me or not, but this is fact. And as for knowing the score THE TEAM CAPTAIN [in 1991]told me my score .. I have been judging since 1979 and i do know a few judges on most teams. No they do not throw me a bone ! but people do find out their scores...

09-24-2012, 05:35 PM	#8
Blessyouboys Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Blissful Posts: 298	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A If you know how the system works, and you have evidently been playing the game for at least 11 years now, why are you complaining about it?

09-24-2012, 06:16 PM	#10
peters180a/170b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Putnam Valley N.Y. Posts: 2,151	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A bringing out what goes on behind the curtains. I am glad you have L.O.L. before the BS...AND BLESSYOUBOYS,,, I HAVE THE SET OF BALLS TO SAY WHATS ON MY MIND.. I am putting them on notice to straighten out the issues.. Vince . i wish it was BS...

09-24-2012, 07:18 PM	#11
Roadster62 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ridgefield, Ct Posts: 3,441	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A Yes, National Awards takes the score into consideration, but they are looking at color slides of all vehicles that are nominated. You can open your garage door and take a front or rear photo and side views from inside.OR you can take your vehicle to a professional with a studio, or use a nice outdoor setting and take your own drop dead best photos and send them in. What slide do you think will look best at the Awards Banquet? Bob ..................Pete, your avitar photo isn't good enough. __________________ They don't have to run to be enjoyed. I'm here to enjoy the hobby, and enjoy the cars no matter what they look like. Most of the worlds problems are electrical.

09-25-2012, 03:06 AM	#12
peters180a/170b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Putnam Valley N.Y. Posts: 2,151	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A I have sent for over the 3 years different pictures and more then 10 pictures. And this award is only for that year and meets. I have covered 4 meets this year. My car scored high point car at each meet. We did send super pictures.Even some from the MARC MAG. on the cover story.

09-25-2012, 03:45 PM	#14
peters180a/170b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Putnam Valley N.Y. Posts: 2,151	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A Brent my car HAS been submitted for that award in 2009 , 2010 and 2011. He won it in 2011 last year. A repro covered parts car Vicky in 2010 . I did know you worked on that car after French lick because he did not win a MARC of EX. ,He did win the following year. I spoke to him for awhile in Tenn. after he drove down from the MARC meet in Wisc. And as for the 1931 Slant Fordor i have receiver 2 messages that people know that car[very well] and she gives $$$$ to the A.A.C.A. Library. I served as a Team captain so i know. everyone knows the score on the car they just judged when they tell the team captain their score. it's easy to add the scores up in ones head as the members tell the team captain their scoring. Yes and you are right no one on the field knows other then the owner[if around] and the special judge will know if you are picked for a special award.. They come around after all said and done and goes over the car again...sometimes 1 or 2 judges.. Been there and done that..

09-25-2012, 05:25 PM	#15
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A This reads like the BS from when my wife and I showed a Dalmatian................ Paul in CT

09-25-2012, 06:09 PM	#16
peters180a/170b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Putnam Valley N.Y. Posts: 2,151	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A Paul in CT...... Most if not all your post really add up to nothing.. I think you like to just watch you post numbers add up??? Sometimes you are better off sitting on the side line...like this time.... Not to sound rude but BS is questioning me and my post.

09-25-2012, 06:10 PM	#17
Bob-A Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central FL, USA Posts: 1,140	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A Brent, On the Model-T judging issue: Just passing on what was told to me by a good friend. On the Packard/AACA issue: I was there. Is has been many, many years since I was an officer/judge in a local Antique car club. I never saw any favoritism then, but I could see how easy it would be. Bob-A

09-25-2012, 06:22 PM	#19
jimalabam Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lee County Alabama Posts: 828	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A Let's shutdown all this fine point talk and go touring...

09-25-2012, 06:39 PM	#20
peters180a/170b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Putnam Valley N.Y. Posts: 2,151	Re: Page 66 in Antique Automobile 180A First we are talking about A.A.C.A. awards [Not MARC] .This pompous ass that is the owner of the car would like a fair deal after 7 years of restoration , time , money , attending National meets[ 9 to date over 3 years]and you POINT OUT its about the car and NOT how much you write out the check for... Someone who knows the car very well and the woman said the car drives well but as far as the restoration will not get a MARC of EX....now i viewed the car in Tenn. and did need that little push..remember 5 point spread you need to win a Grand National award. And maybe Vince more people will step up and say more to correct the problems in Judging .People will say nothing with a remark you just made. With me i really don't give a rats ass but i do make a point and we will see in Dec. when the winner is announced. . Last edited by peters180a/170b; 09-25-2012 at 06:45 PM.