Pennsylvania Title Woes; How did YOU get your A legal?

[FordMike]

First off I'd like to wish everyone a Happy New Year, I hope everyone had a great time and stayed safe. Second of all if this thread doesn't fit the guidelines please close it, I really need some info and I have exhausted all my known leads. Oh, and please guys don't let it turn into a politics thing...

Now that that's over... I've noticed there quite a few Ford Barn members from the good old Keystone state, hopefully some of you will be able to share some insight with me on this one. It's a well known fact that it is a pain to do anything with titling or getting old cars legal period in Pa, but there is no way that we are the only people in history trying to restore an old A without a title.

He got this AA about 20 some years ago from a friend who basically dumped it off at his house. He knew my dad was into old cars and rather than scrap it he just gave it to my old man. No Title, no bill of sale. Now fast forward to around 2006. I'm about 14 and I start tinkering around with this old junk AA chassis. Maybe some of you have seen these pictures before, but this is what it looked like at this time...



So a couple years pass and we got some real good deals on parts from local guys and some genuine good people at swap meets. My dad started working his magic and now has the truck at about 85% completion. This is restored to the highest quality that I've seen him do, he made sure every last thing was right including the color.



At this stage, around 2009, it started to slow down and this is when the title woes kick in. We have tried just about everything to get a title by the books to no avail. I could sit here and type all the ways until my fingers are numb and still not cover it all. So the truck sat, shoved in the corner of the garage untouched until a few months ago when we located a Weaver auto crane that was slated to be scrapped. We have since brought it home and my old man has been itching to work on this thing again but I know the fact that it can seemingly not ever be a street legal vehicle is stopping him.

I recently started looking again for ways to possibly apply for a title, I even checked all the forms on PennDot's site but there aren't any that apply to this situation. I talked to a few guys that own garages locally and a couple of them told me it would have to be titled as a specialty construction, or better known as a Street Rod. Now a street rod plate is fine and all but for something that is rebuilt as a bone stock Model A that will only push speeds of about 45, it seems a little much. Not to mention it would certainly mean more in insurance, but for what? It's not a race car, its a stock 1929 AA. Even trying to apply for a new title wouldn't be as bad, this thing would pass inspection easily, everything on it works. I would like to make it clear, I have journeyed into the whole "buying a title" game but I really want to have this cleared up legally seeing as that is a felony and all.



Which brings my long rant of sorts to an end. Is there something I'm missing, I know somebody, somewhere in Pennsylvania has restored an A without a title and somehow they are out enjoying all their hard work. If anyone has any hints or can help me out in any way feel free to post or PM my if you wouldn't like to post on this touchy topic.

Thank you all for your time, hopefully I didn't cause anyone's eyes to cross!

Happy New Year,
Mike

[Tom Wesenberg]

This truck was NOT assembled from many parts bought at swap meets. This was your grandfather's truck that was passed down to you after he passed away. The title has been lost for years and you need to apply for a new title. PERIOD

[Rowdy]

There should be a way for the state to do a title search through the state DMV. A duplicate title may be able to be given to who ever was the administrator of the estate. Then it can be signed over to you. Your state laws may be different, but it would work here most of the time.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

This truck was NOT assembled from many parts bought at swap meets. This was your grandfather's truck that was passed down to you after he passed away. The title has been lost for years and you need to apply for a new title. PERIOD

That would be fine except I would assume I would need a Death Certificate and if that somehow worked out then there would need to be inheritance payed on the value of the truck.

Originally Posted by Rowdy

There should be a way for the state to do a title search through the state DMV. A duplicate title may be able to be given to who ever was the administrator of the estate. Then it can be signed over to you. Your state laws may be different, but it would work here most of the time.

I'm very new to this but wouldn't this enable the administrator of the estate to basically say that was their truck, and being as they have the title it technically would be their truck? Maybe I'm thinking to deep into this...

[Chris in WNC]

is you dad's friend still available? or his heirs? THEY might be able to apply for a duplicate since the title was lost.

find a sympathetic cop or DMV worker to run the serial number and see what's in the current data base both PA & national.

1986 I bought my first A from a farmer in Tipton GA.
he gave me a handwritten bill of sale and assured me that was all I needed.
at the tag office in Jacksonville FL they wised me up to the REAL facts.
fortunately they gave me name and address of the previous owner who was local.
I tracked him down and he was kind enough to apply for a duplicate title and sign it over to me, no charge.
if the engine number had not matched the number the FL DMV had on file, this would have been much more difficult.


your results may vary.......

[Terry, NJ]

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Welcome to Pa! Or at least it's screwy (and expensive) DMV laws. I'm new here myself and I prefer Jersey's laws to this outdated system. (And if you think it's tough doing a car, try a boat with out a title) Probably the easiest thing to do is is to register it as a hotrod or a homebuilt. Modernizing Pa's DMV laws would be a good election issue. As far as the truck's concerned, How about if Grampa gave it to you before he died and it wasn't mentioned in the will. That is, if it isn't part of the will. Furthermore, In Jersey, There was a provision in the law stating that there was no sales tax is collected when there was a transfer between family members for no consideration. I don't know if Pa has it or not but you can research it.
Terry

[ba49]

I don't know how PA. works but in Ohio if you know a salvage dealer they could get a new title for an abandoned vehicle. If they tow in an abandoned vehicle I believe they can apply for title. Maybe Pa. has a similar law.
Bill

[oliverguy]

Work with a notary that knows what they are doing. You need to have a inspection mechanic with a special licence examine the truck then apply for a reconstructed vehicle title. This would be the same processas if you built a street rod. The truck must be ready to hit the road for the mechanic to fill out his portion of the document. A notary can give you a list of mechanics who have this special licence. Pa will no longer give you a title unless someone has examed the vehicle to make sure if is safe. Same for home built trailers chopper bikes street rods and kit cars

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

is you dad's friend still available? or his heirs? THEY might be able to apply for a duplicate since the title was lost.

find a sympathetic cop or DMV worker to run the serial number and see what's in the current data base both PA & national.

1986 I bought my first A from a farmer in Tipton GA.
he gave me a handwritten bill of sale and assured me that was all I needed.
at the tag office in Jacksonville FL they wised me up to the REAL facts.
fortunately they gave me name and address of the previous owner who was local.
I tracked him down and he was kind enough to apply for a duplicate title and sign it over to me, no charge.

your results may vary.......

I think I am going to go this route at first and try to have the numbers checked out by a cop. I would be willing to bet that it won't be too helpful because I know a little back story on this truck, and I would assume the current title holder has long since passed and tracking down heirs will be easier said than done.

Thanks for this bit of advise tho!

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Welcome to Pa! Or at least it's screwy (and expensive) DMV laws. I'm new here myself and I prefer Jersey's laws to this outdated system. (And if you think it's tough doing a car, try a boat with out a title) Probably the easiest thing to do is is to register it as a hotrod or a homebuilt. Modernizing Pa's DMV laws would be a good election issue. As far as the truck's concerned, How about if Grampa gave it to you before he died and it wasn't mentioned in the will. That is, if it isn't part of the will. Furthermore, In Jersey, There was a provision in the law stating that there was no sales tax is collected when there was a transfer between family members for no consideration. I don't know if Pa has it or not but you can research it.
Terry

I recently was given a truck by my grandfather and we went through Triple A (god what a mess!) to get the title transferred to me. The state is hungry for tax money so it had to be sold to me for $1. I guess so the state could get a whole six cents out of the deal but whatever.

I've heard Jersey is quite a bit easier on their laws, too bad I don't have any family there!

Originally Posted by ba49

I don't know how PA. works but in Ohio if you know a salvage dealer they could get a new title for an abandoned vehicle. If they tow in an abandoned vehicle I believe they can apply for title. Maybe Pa. has a similar law.
Bill

I will definitely be checking into this. The truck was originally, oh about 30 years ago, abandoned behind a building in town with a few other junk cars. It could have been sitting there since it was new for all I know I'm too young to remember that far back. But my dads friend was the one who was in charge of cleaning it up and junking the cars, instead of junking it he brought it here. Or at least that's how the story was told to me. I do know the guy who originally brought the truck to my dad, I will have to see if there is any way he could apply for the title. The only thing that may snafu that plan is that all of this happened so long ago.

At any rate thanks for the responses guys. Its giving me something to go on at least!

[Rowdy]

Yes that is correct. They were left as the administrator by the deceased and have legal say so on all property and money matters. Having that power extends to cars ownership and title. It is up to the administrator to handle all negotioations in respect to the title and the car itself. Most administrators handle matters like this with the wishes of the deceased in mind, but not always. Rod

[5window]

Fordmike,
PA sure is fun. You may, ultimately, have to get a PA title as a reconstructed vehicle or a street rod. But, that's a hassle, too. At some point, PA is going to want sales tax unless you can prove you paid it on all the major parts-that's just a fact of life. You'll ultimately need to declare a value and you might as well insure it for that amount anyway.

If I could make one suggestion, it would be to avoid direct contact with PennDot if possible. Find out who your State Representative is and contact them. Make an appt and tell them your story and ask them how they can help you. This is what your state rep is supposed to do and they can act as a really good intermediary with PennDot and get way less hassles. Don't send anything in to the DMV, make a copy of everything and send your paper work in through the rep. This will save you way more grief than anything else you do.

One more suggestion is to consider legal action to have a court declare this vehicle yours and then you can get a title. You can read about that option here:
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms...ts/fs-intr.pdf but you'll probably need Adobe to download it.

If you want to chat, feel free to PM me your # and I'll call you back. Help if i can, sympathize for sure. Best of luck.

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms...ts/fs-intr.pdf

[Special Coupe Frank]

Mike,

e-mail or PM me; a good friend went through legal channels to get a title for his '51 Hudson, which came w/o title, only a Bill of Sale.

There is a process that goes through the court system. It is legal, and doesn't involve the less-than sympathetic and even less-helpful people at DMV.

It will run a couple of hundred dollars for court fees, but you will end-up with a clear, legal PA title for your AA ( not street-rod or re-constructed ), and not from some out-of-state title mill.

SC Frank

[MCHinson]

I have no personal experience with PA DMV but here is a link to a discussion of one alternative from the AACA Discussion Forum:

http://forums.aaca.org/f133/pa-resid...le-337382.html

[Special Coupe Frank]

5-Window and Matt Hinson have both mentioned the same court proceddure that my friend used... suggest checking-into it.

Drop me a line if you need more specifics.

SC Frank

[Deluxe Delivery Don]

My suggestion is to apply for a lost Title, but SC Frank 's suggestion going through the court process for a couple 100 bucks sounds good. Another suggestion is tell the DMV that the ( DOG ) ate the title. !!!!!!!!!!!!

[darrylkmc]

Probably way different down that way in PA, up here Alaska this is what you do.

Get a Bill of Sale, Have an Appraisal done on the Pre-Restored Vehicle (cheaper), go to your Insurance Company and purchase a 3 year Bond for a Bonded Title, about $50 - $100.
Drag it out to DMV or have your friendly DMV Personnel or Policeman examine the Vehicle and Paperwork to verify that it is a complete vehicle and not a pile of parts.

3 years later the bond expires, no claims can be made against the vehicle, only the Bond, for the three years.

$15.00 Title + $15.00 Antique Plates + $100.00 Bond = $130.00 and nothing shows up on the Title, Free and Clear.

Darryl in Fairbanks

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by Deluxe Delivery Don

My suggestion is to apply for a lost Title, but SC Frank 's suggestion going through the court process for a couple 100 bucks sounds good. Another suggestion is tell the DMV that the ( DOG ) ate the title. !!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm... it's been my experience that you can't tell PA DMV anything.

[kwisor]

hello
you can try titlerecovery.com i have never used them. but thay work all states and thay do all the work
kevin
1930 model a tudor
1923 model t

[rosenkranswa]

I live outside of Philly in PA and have titled alot of vehicles. Believe it or not, I have used our local Best Auto who actually seems to know quite a bit about how to deal with the PA DOT on unusual circumstances. Might just be our particular folks at Best, but might be worth trying them out. They got a YOM plate for me for my '42 Tudor when Harrisburg didn't seem to know what YOM meant.

[BrianBurkert]

Try Broadway Title Company. You have a legitimate truck. I hear the rates have gone up, but might be worth it to avoid any more hassle.