The Ford Barn

Tinker · 02-15-2022, 12:14 AM

I didn't read all the other posts. No Expert but mig user.

Buy a new liner to the gun. It gets gummed up over time. It would effect the feed wheel as there would be more resistance to push the wire. Oh course the gun wire is as close to straight as you can.

I was having a wire feed issue at the gun and replaced the liner and it fixed it. Bought one off ebay, it was easy to do. Normal maintenance anyways.

Hey... as they say it ran when it was parked... That's a great solid mig rig.

Mart · 02-15-2022, 01:13 AM

The rollers have a shallow and a deep groove. The range is .6mm to .8mm. (.023" to .032"). Common sense would dictate that the thinner wire would use the shallower groove.

Is the wire in the shallow groove?

Common sense would also tell me that the rollers are working well. Too well if anything. I would set the wire in the shallow groove and back off the tension so the rollers will slip if the wire becomes stuck downstream.

On mine the wire will sometimes weld itself to the tip. The rollers slip and I have to sometimes remove the tip to free the wire. This is when I know it is time for a new tip.

I can imagine in this scenario that if the rollers are too tight on the wire they will not slip and where is the wire gonna go? It's got to go somewhere and the only thing it can do is bunch up like you have shown.

I have never had that happen because my rollers will slip.

I did have to put a new liner in once because of jamming.

Do you have the correct size tip for the wire? Different sizes of tip are available.

In your case I would do the following:
Turn the rollers so the shallow groove is in action.
Back off the tension so the rollers will slip if necessary.
Turn up the amps high.
Turn up the wire feed.
Practice on some thickish material.

Once a successful bead can be laid down start backing off the settings to suit thinner material.

Hope the above helps.

Mart.

Tinker · 02-15-2022, 01:16 AM

Wire size won't make much difference to the feed roller.

It would depend on where the kink is happening. Before the roller or after? Lube would help the liner for a bit... but it will also collect debris over time too.

rockfla · 02-15-2022, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

Wire size won't make much difference to the feed roller.

It would depend on where the kink is happening. Before the roller or after? Lube would help the liner for a bit... but it will also collect debris over time too.

Again, EVERYTHING...the whip, handle, switch, tip, liner.....EVERYTHING is brand new and had "maybe" had 3 to 4 feet of wire run through it since I started using it two years ago. I bought the welder probably 10 years ago and THEN bought all of the NEW whip,, liners, switch, guide plates, feed rollers, handle etc etc and all that goes with it probably 9 years ago and it all sat till about 2 years ago. SO could the liner be dirty from basically just sitting as it was still in the plastic bag until two years ago??? I have a extra liner that I got when I bought all of the original stuff. ONCE again I ask, based on my pictures of my rollers (above post), one of each side of the SAME roller, which is which groove??? How do you tell???

Mart · 02-15-2022, 08:09 AM

The rollers have a shallow and a deep groove. The range is .6mm to .8mm. (.023" to .032"). Common sense would dictate that the thinner wire would use the shallower groove.

Is the wire in the shallow groove?

Common sense would also tell me that the rollers are working well. Too well if anything. I would set the wire in the shallow groove and back off the tension so the rollers will slip if the wire becomes stuck downstream.

On mine the wire will sometimes weld itself to the tip. The rollers slip and I have to sometimes remove the tip to free the wire. This is when I know it is time for a new tip.

I can imagine in this scenario that if the rollers are too tight on the wire they will not slip and where is the wire gonna go? It's got to go somewhere and the only thing it can do is bunch up like you have shown.

I have never had that happen because my rollers will slip.

I did have to put a new liner in once because of jamming.

Do you have the correct size tip for the wire? Different sizes of tip are available.

In your case I would do the following:
Turn the rollers so the shallow groove is in action.
Back off the tension so the rollers will slip if necessary.
Turn up the amps high.
Turn up the wire feed.
Practice on some thickish material.

Once a successful bead can be laid down start backing off the settings to suit thinner material.

Hope the above helps.

Mart.

rockfla · 02-15-2022, 08:21 AM

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Mart
My amps and feed are pretty well set, I get a good even discoloration/heat saturation line on my welds and a good even cracking/popping sound as I weld. I will ad my best friend, who worked for a commercial welding shop/muffler shop/fabrication shop for over 15 years AND now is the only welder for a prosthetics company here in town (and is the vintage race car mechanic and fabricator for the owner of the Company he works for) came to my house and "Set" my machine up for me and taught me some basics of my machine, he set my feed and speed for mainly what I was welding and brought a variety of materials and gave me a "general" list of feeds and amp settings for different thicknesses of material. I will re-Mic my roller and see again IF there is any difference in the two.

FOR NOW, putting the lube/cleaner felt on the inlet side of the feed rollers seems to have done the trick!!!!

Mart · 02-15-2022, 08:27 AM

Slack off the tension until it slips and then retighten it just enough so it doesn't slip in use but would slip if it jams for some reason.

To be honest you have to just get out there and practise, practise, practise. It's better to learn for yourself than just go by some guidelines handed to you.

Is your friend available to visit and check things over?

Good luck with it, I'm sure you will get to the bottom of it.

Mart.

51 MERC-CT · 02-15-2022, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfla

Mart
My amps and feed are pretty well set, I get a good even discoloration/heat saturation line on my welds and a good even cracking/popping sound as I weld. I will ad my best friend, who worked for a commercial welding shop/muffler shop/fabrication shop for over 15 years AND now is the only welder for a prosthetics company here in town (and is the vintage race car mechanic and fabricator for the owner of the Company he works for) came to my house and "Set" my machine up for me and taught me some basics of my machine, he set my feed and speed for mainly what I was welding and brought a variety of materials and gave me a "general" list of feeds and amp settings for different thicknesses of material. I will re-Mic my roller and see again IF there is any difference in the two.

FOR NOW, putting the lube/cleaner felt on the inlet side of the feed rollers seems to have done the trick!!!!

Do the rollers in fact have 1 or 2 groves ?
If just 1 groove then made for use with both sizes of wire.

rockfla · 02-15-2022, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

Do the rollers in fact have 1 or 2 groves ?
If just 1 groove then made for use with both sizes of wire.

2 separate grooves!!

AND NOT to discount the importance of having the right groove for the right size wire BUT logic tells me that the "grooves" and or the drive wheels aren't the issue......THE wire is for "some" reason being stopped AND the drive wheels are STILL "DRIVING" thus kinking the wire as it gets PAST the drive wheels!!! SO they are doing their job perfectly!!!! NO????

Mart · 02-15-2022, 11:55 AM

No.
They are doing their job too well. They need to be able to slip if there is a jam in the wire at the tip.

51 MERC-CT · 02-15-2022, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfla

2 separate grooves!!

AND NOT to discount the importance of having the right groove for the right size wire BUT logic tells me that the "grooves" and or the drive wheels aren't the issue......THE wire is for "some" reason being stopped AND the drive wheels are STILL "DRIVING" thus kinking the wire as it gets PAST the drive wheels!!! SO they are doing their job perfectly!!!! NO????

Yes, it is obvious that there is/was a restriction that caused the crimp.

Tinker · 02-17-2022, 01:41 AM

I do think something is causing feed issues from the roller to the gun.

You might consider what Mart said about adjusting the feed wheel to a slight drag too.

That looks like some light wire. What you running? Keep the gun hose not rolled up when running it either.

i have almost the same lincoln. No issue running general .035 wire. Matched to all the gun tips.

If you are welding and this happens. Maybe slow your wire speed. If you just hold the gun in the air and run 10ft through it and it happens. That might tell you something too.

Being you have an expert friend setting you up, I'll just walk away from your thread asking here about why it's not working.

rockfla · 02-17-2022, 07:44 AM

Tinker
I'm running .023 EZ grind. I find the smaller diameter wire really works well with 18/16ga sheet metal. A little less heat foot print than .035. With the addition of the wire luber, I did slow my feed rate down a tad too. Again the luber and slight feed adjustment seem to have cured my issue

theHIGHLANDER · 02-26-2022, 05:52 PM

Old tricks that worked for me. .030 wire? Run it thru an .035 tip. .023? Run it thru an .030. Make sure you use the nonstick spray or nozzle dip. Works for me. I still use the .023 tip when I do sheet metal, but for light duty and brackets etc, .030. Hard to say why it's so much nicer but it is.

Yoyodyne · 02-26-2022, 09:38 PM

Tinker mentioned keeping the power cable as straight as possible. Lay it out as close to straight as you can and still make a weld, see if it makes a difference. Bending it causes drag inside the liner, moving it around while welding will change the wire speed and change the weld parameters, tight enough and it will stop completely.

02-15-2022, 12:14 AM	#21
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: MIG welder experts I didn't read all the other posts. No Expert but mig user. Buy a new liner to the gun. It gets gummed up over time. It would effect the feed wheel as there would be more resistance to push the wire. Oh course the gun wire is as close to straight as you can. I was having a wire feed issue at the gun and replaced the liner and it fixed it. Bought one off ebay, it was easy to do. Normal maintenance anyways. Hey... as they say it ran when it was parked... That's a great solid mig rig. Last edited by Tinker; 02-15-2022 at 12:46 AM.

02-15-2022, 01:13 AM	#22
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: MIG welder experts The rollers have a shallow and a deep groove. The range is .6mm to .8mm. (.023" to .032"). Common sense would dictate that the thinner wire would use the shallower groove. Is the wire in the shallow groove? Common sense would also tell me that the rollers are working well. Too well if anything. I would set the wire in the shallow groove and back off the tension so the rollers will slip if the wire becomes stuck downstream. On mine the wire will sometimes weld itself to the tip. The rollers slip and I have to sometimes remove the tip to free the wire. This is when I know it is time for a new tip. I can imagine in this scenario that if the rollers are too tight on the wire they will not slip and where is the wire gonna go? It's got to go somewhere and the only thing it can do is bunch up like you have shown. I have never had that happen because my rollers will slip. I did have to put a new liner in once because of jamming. Do you have the correct size tip for the wire? Different sizes of tip are available. In your case I would do the following: Turn the rollers so the shallow groove is in action. Back off the tension so the rollers will slip if necessary. Turn up the amps high. Turn up the wire feed. Practice on some thickish material. Once a successful bead can be laid down start backing off the settings to suit thinner material. Hope the above helps. Mart.

02-15-2022, 01:16 AM	#23
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: MIG welder experts Wire size won't make much difference to the feed roller. It would depend on where the kink is happening. Before the roller or after? Lube would help the liner for a bit... but it will also collect debris over time too.

02-15-2022, 08:09 AM	#25
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: MIG welder experts The rollers have a shallow and a deep groove. The range is .6mm to .8mm. (.023" to .032"). Common sense would dictate that the thinner wire would use the shallower groove. Is the wire in the shallow groove? Common sense would also tell me that the rollers are working well. Too well if anything. I would set the wire in the shallow groove and back off the tension so the rollers will slip if the wire becomes stuck downstream. On mine the wire will sometimes weld itself to the tip. The rollers slip and I have to sometimes remove the tip to free the wire. This is when I know it is time for a new tip. I can imagine in this scenario that if the rollers are too tight on the wire they will not slip and where is the wire gonna go? It's got to go somewhere and the only thing it can do is bunch up like you have shown. I have never had that happen because my rollers will slip. I did have to put a new liner in once because of jamming. Do you have the correct size tip for the wire? Different sizes of tip are available. In your case I would do the following: Turn the rollers so the shallow groove is in action. Back off the tension so the rollers will slip if necessary. Turn up the amps high. Turn up the wire feed. Practice on some thickish material. Once a successful bead can be laid down start backing off the settings to suit thinner material. Hope the above helps. Mart.

02-15-2022, 08:21 AM	#26
rockfla Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 3,963	Re: MIG welder experts Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Mart My amps and feed are pretty well set, I get a good even discoloration/heat saturation line on my welds and a good even cracking/popping sound as I weld. I will ad my best friend, who worked for a commercial welding shop/muffler shop/fabrication shop for over 15 years AND now is the only welder for a prosthetics company here in town (and is the vintage race car mechanic and fabricator for the owner of the Company he works for) came to my house and "Set" my machine up for me and taught me some basics of my machine, he set my feed and speed for mainly what I was welding and brought a variety of materials and gave me a "general" list of feeds and amp settings for different thicknesses of material. I will re-Mic my roller and see again IF there is any difference in the two. FOR NOW, putting the lube/cleaner felt on the inlet side of the feed rollers seems to have done the trick!!!!

02-15-2022, 08:27 AM	#27
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: MIG welder experts Slack off the tension until it slips and then retighten it just enough so it doesn't slip in use but would slip if it jams for some reason. To be honest you have to just get out there and practise, practise, practise. It's better to learn for yourself than just go by some guidelines handed to you. Is your friend available to visit and check things over? Good luck with it, I'm sure you will get to the bottom of it. Mart.

02-15-2022, 11:55 AM	#30
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: MIG welder experts No. They are doing their job too well. They need to be able to slip if there is a jam in the wire at the tip.

02-17-2022, 01:41 AM	#32
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: MIG welder experts I do think something is causing feed issues from the roller to the gun. You might consider what Mart said about adjusting the feed wheel to a slight drag too. That looks like some light wire. What you running? Keep the gun hose not rolled up when running it either. i have almost the same lincoln. No issue running general .035 wire. Matched to all the gun tips. If you are welding and this happens. Maybe slow your wire speed. If you just hold the gun in the air and run 10ft through it and it happens. That might tell you something too. Being you have an expert friend setting you up, I'll just walk away from your thread asking here about why it's not working. Last edited by Tinker; 02-17-2022 at 02:05 AM.

02-17-2022, 07:44 AM	#33
rockfla Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 3,963	Re: MIG welder experts Tinker I'm running .023 EZ grind. I find the smaller diameter wire really works well with 18/16ga sheet metal. A little less heat foot print than .035. With the addition of the wire luber, I did slow my feed rate down a tad too. Again the luber and slight feed adjustment seem to have cured my issue

02-26-2022, 05:52 PM	#34
theHIGHLANDER Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 492	Re: MIG welder experts Old tricks that worked for me. .030 wire? Run it thru an .035 tip. .023? Run it thru an .030. Make sure you use the nonstick spray or nozzle dip. Works for me. I still use the .023 tip when I do sheet metal, but for light duty and brackets etc, .030. Hard to say why it's so much nicer but it is.

02-26-2022, 09:38 PM	#35
Yoyodyne Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Lancaster PA Posts: 535	Re: MIG welder experts Tinker mentioned keeping the power cable as straight as possible. Lay it out as close to straight as you can and still make a weld, see if it makes a difference. Bending it causes drag inside the liner, moving it around while welding will change the wire speed and change the weld parameters, tight enough and it will stop completely.