Zeroing in a fly wheel cover

[Terry, NJ]

As the title says I'm zeroing in a FW cover and and the surface is too pitted and makes the indicator dance around too much for a good reading. I'm thinking of a laser. I can make a fixture to bolt it to the crankshaft, that's not a problem. I'm using a Starrett "Last Word" and a Etalon and the ball gets caught in the pits. What I need is a laser device to do the reading.
Terry

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

As the title says I'm zeroing in a FW cover and and the surface is too pitted and makes the indicator dance around too much for a good reading. I'm thinking of a laser. I can make a fixture to bolt it to the crankshaft, that's not a problem. I'm using a Starrett "Last Word" and a Etalon and the ball gets caught in the pits. What I need is a laser device to do the reading.
Terry

The "Last Word" is a 0.0001" indicator, which seems to me to be a bit of an overkill for a flywheel housing. The shims that are used to align the housing are 0.015" thick, so indicating to 0.0001" is sort of lost. I use a 0.001" dial indicator (I have several Starret, Mitutoyo, Yuasa) with a large flat tip to take the pits out of consideration (since they don't matter in this application).

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Hey Terry, I think most people misunderstand this process, ...and quite honestly I used to also.

When you read the Service Bulletins and understand the instruction, the process is not to shim the Flywheel Housing into alignment, ...but the indicator is used to just check the FW Housing to verify it is in alignment. The only place that shims were allowed is in the upper two holes, -and this was to compensate for the gasket thickness. If installing a 0.010" shim in the two holes where the tabs are did not bring the housing into alignment, then Ford specified to install a new housing. New ones are available today, -or some original housings can be machined. I modified a grinder by installing a large faceplate to be able to re-machine a flywheel housing where both sides are coplanar. Click on the link below to see what is happening;

https://youtu.be/2GDg5AT2TmI

[nkaminar]

It is a good idea to grind the two ends, even if you don't clean up all the pits. For one thing, the side that mounts to the block has to make a good seal where the rear cam bearing is. A lot of flywheel housing are not flat there which has lead to leaks. As far as indicating it, clean up the face with a flat file, just enough to get rid of any rust and burrs, and then indicate where there are not pits. Check the fit to the block by trying to insert feeler gauges after bolting the housing to the block without a gasket.

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Hey Terry, I think most people misunderstand this process, ...and quite honestly I used to also.

When you read the Service Bulletins and understand the instruction, the process is not to shim the Flywheel Housing into alignment, ...but the indicator is used to just check the FW Housing to verify it is in alignment. The only place that shims were allowed is in the upper two holes, -and this was to compensate for the gasket thickness. If installing a 0.010" shim in the two holes where the tabs are did not bring the housing into alignment, then Ford specified to install a new housing. New ones are available today, -or some original housings can be machined. I modified a grinder by installing a large faceplate to be able to re-machine a flywheel housing where both sides are coplanar. Click on the link below to see what is happening;

https://youtu.be/2GDg5AT2TmI

EEEWWWWW! I see that and I almost had an orgasm That is so, "Just what I need!" What did you use to begin that? Your RPMs are just about right, all it needs is a coolant delivery system! Without coolant, the work tends to get hot and "Belly up" to the wheel and eventually all heck breaks loose, wheel, work, and God knows what else! In principal, It is a miniature Blanchard grinder. The Blanchard I ran had a 1" or 1 1/4"pipe for coolant delivery. It had a magnetic 4' table and four segments for a wheel and still the work came off the machine hot. I had a segment of a wheel let go once, and go through the air like a mini helicopter. It sliced through a free hanging air hose, completely through! Not halfway! Dangerous Machine! That machine you built is a beauty, wish I had enough of a shop to build one too. But get some coolant on it!
Terry

[Terry, NJ]

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Originally Posted by nkaminar

It is a good idea to grind the two ends, even if you don't clean up all the pits. For one thing, the side that mounts to the block has to make a good seal where the rear cam bearing is. A lot of flywheel housing are not flat there which has lead to leaks. As far as indicating it, clean up the face with a flat file, just enough to get rid of any rust and burrs, and then indicate where there are not pits. Check the fit to the block by trying to insert feeler gauges after bolting the housing to the block without a gasket.

I did all that with the file, the pits are too deep.Wish I had Brent's grinder to clean up the surfaces. Many people's advice would be to junk it I'm sure.
Terry

[alexiskai]

I wonder if you could fill the pits with SteelStik or another steel putty.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

I did all that with the file, the pits are too deep.Wish I had Brent's grinder to clean up the surfaces. Many people's advice would be to junk it I'm sure.
Terry

Here is a simple way to get an indicator reading with a very pitted surface.
First, there must be enough flat surface left to do this. After simple cleaning with a file, make up a shoe for your indicator. Take a ordinary high tool speed tool bit, say a 3/8 square by 3 inches long and braze a pin to the middle of the tool bit that will fit in the indicator receiver hole. Now check the pin for 90 degrees to the bottom surface of the bit using another indicator. Close is good enough. Grind the corners off the bottom of the tool bit so it will slide easily over the surface being checked.
Now try checking your housing surface.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Pete

Here is a simple way to get an indicator reading with a very pitted surface.
First, there must be enough flat surface left to do this. After simple cleaning with a file, make up a shoe for your indicator. Take a ordinary high tool speed tool bit, say a 3/8 square by 3 inches long and braze a pin to the middle of the tool bit that will fit in the indicator receiver hole. Now check the pin for 90 degrees to the bottom surface of the bit using another indicator. Close is good enough. Grind the corners off the bottom of the tool bit so it will slide easily over the surface being checked.
Now try checking your housing surface.

Easier still is to fill the low spots on the F/W cover with ordinary body filler or an epoxy putty, then file or sand down till the high spots show through - just like preparing a body panel for paint.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Easier still is to fill the low spots on the F/W cover with ordinary body filler or an epoxy putty, then file or sand down till the high spots show through - just like preparing a body panel for paint.

That is not an option with me.
I never use body filler for anything.
It is a Mickey Mouse way of doing a job quick and very poorly.
There are a few of us left that prefer to do things to old day standards.

I chopped a 41 Ford coupe once with NO lead of fillers that won best in show for body work.

[JoeCB]

All the "Last Word" indicators that at I have are .001
Maybe he needs a dial indicator that has removable tips, then use a "button" tip.
Joe

[Dan McEachern]

A small block of steel- even a 6" machinists scale placed between the indicator tip and the housing surface will allow you to check the runout as the surface irregularities will get averaged out.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by JoeCB

All the "Last Word" indicators that at I have are .001
Maybe he needs a dial indicator that has removable tips, then use a "button" tip.
Joe

I stand corrected - I was thinking of my “BesTest” that I use for machine setup, which is 0.0001”. Thanks for the sanity check.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

EEEWWWWW! I see that and I almost had an orgasm That is so, "Just what I need!" What did you use to begin that?


Your RPMs are just about right, all it needs is a coolant delivery system! Without coolant, the work tends to get hot and "Belly up" to the wheel and eventually all heck breaks loose, wheel, work, and God knows what else! In principal, It is a miniature Blanchard grinder. The Blanchard I ran had a 1" or 1 1/4"pipe for coolant delivery. It had a magnetic 4' table and four segments for a wheel and still the work came off the machine hot. I had a segment of a wheel let go once, and go through the air like a mini helicopter. It sliced through a free hanging air hose, completely through! Not halfway! Dangerous Machine! That machine you built is a beauty, wish I had enough of a shop to build one too. But get some coolant on it!
Terry

It started as a Kwik-Way flywheel grinder. Machine a plate to fit the grinder hub, and then grind the plate level. The key is the spindle bearings you need to upgrade to a grade 7 or better, -which I think I gave $400 a piece of each of the spindle bearings. This takes any deflection out of the plate due to grinder pressure. I also do Clutch (bell) Housings on it. Some day I will probably build a fixture to hold exhaust & intake manifolds so they can be resurfaced.

Actually, this uses one of the new CBN (-industrial diamond) grinding heads instead of a grinder rock. The CBN does not use coolant, and the surface really does not build heat. I am only taking about 0.002" per cut which really doesn't generate a lot of heat. Most housings will be between 0.010" - 0.020" out, so after I make the last pass that has continuous grinding, I just let it run until it sparks out and then it is dead-on. This also gives the housing plenty of time to cool if there is any heat build-up.

FWIW, I have not even bothered indicating one we installed in the last couple of years, as the first ones we did always hit in the 0.001" - 0.003" range which is well within the 0.006" spec.

[1crosscut]

Leave the dial indicator above the flywheel a small amount and then use a feeler gauge between it and the flywheel housing.

[Richard Knight]

That is a great use for a flywheel grinder. If memory serves me right the original shims where .008.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Pete

That is not an option with me.
I never use body filler for anything.
It is a Mickey Mouse way of doing a job quick and very poorly.
There are a few of us left that prefer to do things to old day standards.

I chopped a 41 Ford coupe once with NO lead of fillers that won best in show for body work.

We all have our funny little ways!

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

We all have our funny little ways!

I didn't insult you but I can if need be.