need help with overheating issue!

[Theo]

hey there guys, having an issue with overheating on the newer motor I just installed on my model a.

The previous motor I had, had no overheating issue, and is using the same equipment as the new motor.

After driving about 10-15 minutes, coolant starts dumping out the overflow, and the coolant coming out is extremely hot and steaming. the engine is also extremely hot. I drove it tonight for about a half hour and lost about half a gallon of coolant. Checked the plugs and the oil, no coolant in either, no smoke out of the tail pipe.

heres the info on the motor:
Stock shortblock
weber 2 barrel carb setup
FSI electronic 6 volt ignition
Newer recored radiator (worked perfect on previous engine)
Leakless waterpump (2 years old)
snyders premium headgasket http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/4590
head properly torqued

Some issues:
Exhaust header leaking (could this heat the head up too much)?
original head that came with the motor had a mices nest in it, did not use this head, put on the one from my previous motor. But, the motor also had some stuff in the water jackets, so I cleaned this out.

Could it be possible that there is a jam up somewhere? I was going to use a pool blower (blows water out of pool lines) to see if something is jammed up. is this okay to do or bad for the motor? I was going to do it on the radiator as well.

thanks guys

[Tom Wesenberg]

My first thought was you have mouse problems, and you pretty well confirmed it when you said the mouse nest was in the head. I would remove the radiator and turn it upside down and backflush it with a sump pump, as I had to do to clean all the rust flakes from my radiator. I would also back flush the block.

[Russell in Tulsa]

Also a new rebuild runs hotter than an older motor until all the parts get friendly with one another. Does the newer motor take more cranking or can you tell if it is slower to crank than the previous motor? Tighter then the take out and thus more friction.

[Brentwood Bob]

check the timing, you will need to retorque the head several times, back flush the radiator and the block, are you running the spark lever about 2/3 down after startup, is the intake and exhaust flush to the block and tightened to avoid leaks?
Bob

[V4F]

do you have mice in your muffler ?

[Theo]

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Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

My first thought was you have mouse problems, and you pretty well confirmed it when you said the mouse nest was in the head. I would remove the radiator and turn it upside down and backflush it with a sump pump, as I had to do to clean all the rust flakes from my radiator. I would also back flush the block.

That's what I'm thinking. I think I may have missed something somewhere. I do not have access to a sump pump. Could I just blow everything out, refill with water then blow out again?

Originally Posted by Russell in Tulsa

Also a new rebuild runs hotter than an older motor until all the parts get friendly with one another. Does the newer motor take more cranking or can you tell if it is slower to crank than the previous motor? Tighter then the take out and thus more friction.

The motor is used, but new to me. The motor is actually easier to crank then the previous motor.

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

check the timing, you will need to retorque the head several times, back flush the radiator and the block, are you running the spark lever about 2/3 down after startup, is the intake and exhaust flush to the block and tightened to avoid leaks?
Bob

Since I have electronic ignition the spark lever doesn't get used. The intake is flush with the block, the exhaust header is not, seems to be warped. I'm going to order a new one. Could this be the cause maybe?

Originally Posted by V4F

do you have mice in your muffler ?

Muffler doesn't have mice in it. But the baffle does appear to be loose inside of it

[Brentwood Bob]

the intake and exhaust as a unit need to be surfaced to fitup flush thru the entire contact to the block face. Otherwise you won't get a proper seal and you will stress the manifolds. The gaskets also will be damaged. And yes, I would think a lean fuel mixture, due to the air pulled in by the poor fitup, would contribute to the overheating, IMHO.

[Tom Wesenberg]

A blow gun or water from a garden hose won't do much as far as backflushing. You need a lot of volume. A shop vac would be better than a blow gun if you are using the inlet or outlet. I found my sump pump at a local garage sale for $5. I also bought a submersible for $25 last week on craigslist, as an extra for my house.

[rocket1]

check the compression

[Theo]

okay, so I backflushed everything (managed to get a hold of a sump pump). Pulled out some minor dirt and that was it! I blew everything else out as well, just to be on the safe side. So nothing seems to be clogged. Did find something though. Looks like I have a cracked block pretty pissed off that this guy sold me a crappy motor. Its right under the water pump, underneath where the radius is on the block. Doesn't seem to be too bad though, just weeping a bit. I searched a few threads and I am going to use jb weld to fix it (did this on my previous block as well)

Could this be the cause of my overheating? when the block on my last motor got cracked, (different spot, back left of motor) it didn't overheat at all, just weaped coolant like this one is doing.

I also did some searching, and I never trimmed the tabs on the impeller shaft of the water pump.. I have either a recored or reproduction radiator. should I do that?

Could timing be an issue as well? Ive read threads how to time the car with the stock distributor. My car has FSI electronic ignition. The directions are extremely vague. Unfortunately it wasn't my choice to put this in, came with the last motor

I also read some threads where they say its not advisable to use antifreeze. Unfortunantly I live in nj, and drive the car in the winter. so what should I do?

Sorry for all the questions I know its a lot. Im 22 years old, ive had the car for 3 years now, its been in the family since new and was passed down to me. It was running great till the second motor crapped out on me, now im on number 3.

[JOES31]

In your original post you mentioned a Snyder's head gasket so I presume you pulled the head for some reason. Did you use gasket sealant? If you use too much it will seep into the water jackets and close them up restricting water flow. When I changed my head gasket I used a very light coating of the copper spray that Snyder's sells.

Don't know if this is the problem but it seems you have already eliminated the obvious.

I run the orange Prestone in mine without any problems. It never gets over 170 even in 100 degree weather. There used to e an additive you could get instead of antifreeze. It was a white milky liquid in a small can that you added to the water. Can't find it anymore.

[1930artdeco]

Hi Theo,

1-the motor I pulled had a cracked block under the h20 pump and dad just JB'd it. I don't think that is causing your overheat.

2-The reason people trim the impellor fins is to slow down the amount of water the pump puts out. This lets the water heat up and reduces the pressure as it can spit it out the over flow tube.

3-Timing could be a big issue. I don't know about the electronic ignition but I prefer the old point system. I can fix it on the side of the road, if the electronic dies your dead. You may consider replacing it. retarded timing will cause the car to overheat.

4-Try water wetter, you can get it at motorcycle stores. Otherwise just use plain water. Congrats in keeping the car in the family. All to often family history is discarded nowa days.

Mike

[bikejunk]

Hey fellow Jerseyite if you use water you must remember to put in anti-freze come october or so . and who did you get the motor from? from a rebuilder or was it good used , a builder should not give you a cracked block giv him a call !!

[bikejunk]

Also with electronic ignition it does not matter what position you set the in the cab timing-it does nutin anymore--however if you dont have the timing adjusted to the electronic ignition spects it could be runnin really retarded and thus hot ,also your carb could be lean also a hot issue

[Dick M]

You may want to consider a leaking head gasket. Hot steamy water can be pushed out the overflow if compression seeps into the cooling system. I would do a compression check in addition to the above suggestions.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by JOES31

In your original post you mentioned a Snyder's head gasket so I presume you pulled the head for some reason. Did you use gasket sealant? If you use too much it will seep into the water jackets and close them up restricting water flow. When I changed my head gasket I used a very light coating of the copper spray that Snyder's sells.

Don't know if this is the problem but it seems you have already eliminated the obvious.

I run the orange Prestone in mine without any problems. It never gets over 170 even in 100 degree weather. There used to e an additive you could get instead of antifreeze. It was a white milky liquid in a small can that you added to the water. Can't find it anymore.

The head gasket I bought said to not use any sealants, including copper. It said something about it being self sealing, so I just left it alone, torqued it to spec using the proper pattern, then retorqued it after 50 miles. and I just retorqued it tonight.

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

Hi Theo,

1-the motor I pulled had a cracked block under the h20 pump and dad just JB'd it. I don't think that is causing your overheat.

2-The reason people trim the impellor fins is to slow down the amount of water the pump puts out. This lets the water heat up and reduces the pressure as it can spit it out the over flow tube.

3-Timing could be a big issue. I don't know about the electronic ignition but I prefer the old point system. I can fix it on the side of the road, if the electronic dies your dead. You may consider replacing it. retarded timing will cause the car to overheat.

4-Try water wetter, you can get it at motorcycle stores. Otherwise just use plain water. Congrats in keeping the car in the family. All to often family history is discarded nowa days.

Mike

1). I just jb'd it, so hopefully that will atleast stop the leak

2) its always pushed a lot out of the overflow, which has made me suspect that I have to trim them, but I think I will leave it alone for now

3). I am going to try to set the timing again. I did it by what they said in the instructions that I found online, but I have a feeling its off. I agree, I would definitely prefer the original system. Unfortunatley the original distributor failed and this electronic setup came with the previous engine.

and thank you! Ive loved the car since I was little and I was really happy when my grandfather offered it to me!

Originally Posted by bikejunk

Hey fellow Jerseyite if you use water you must remember to put in anti-freze come october or so . and who did you get the motor from? from a rebuilder or was it good used , a builder should not give you a cracked block giv him a call !!

It was an apparently "good" used motor. I bought it from a guy up in Kingston NY. When I got the engine I found a mice nest in the head, oil pan had a pinhole in it, along with a few other undisclosed issues. but I guess that's what I get for $500

Originally Posted by bikejunk

Also with electronic ignition it does not matter what position you set the in the cab timing-it does nutin anymore--however if you dont have the timing adjusted to the electronic ignition spects it could be runnin really retarded and thus hot ,also your carb could be lean also a hot issue

Im definitely going to check the carb. I want to reset it back to factory spec, and go from there. definitely the timing as well. I have a feeling its off. I think ill give FSI a call tomorrow and see if they can help me out.

Originally Posted by Dick M

You may want to consider a leaking head gasket. Hot steamy water can be pushed out the overflow if compression seeps into the cooling system. I would do a compression check in addition to the above suggestions.

I thought It could be the headgasket as well, but im not getting any of those symptoms. All the plugs are dry, no water or smoke from the tail pipe, no water in oil, no seepage, nothing!

[marc hildebrant]

You're problem sure sounds like retarded ignition.

Marc

[700rpm]

You should be able to rebuild your original dissy for about $75.

[Tom Wesenberg]

My 29 Tudor came with a 2 row repro radiator when I bought the car, and it also flowed out the overflow pipe because the tubes didn't have the capacity to handle the flow of the Model A water pump. I put a good original radiator in the car.

I wouldn't use anything but 50% antufreeze.
I don't want rust, and I don't want a frozen and cracked block.