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Old 12-12-2010, 08:51 PM   #41
Tim
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

Well I changed mine for a more modern ignition. I understand the 6V system and its bennefits well. But I still needed the 12 volt for the Mallory. I used a GM alternator, big pulley and changed the light bulbs. merely switched the cables around. Took about 2 hours. I had already re-wired the whole car, this should be a step for you as well. When you order a harness make sure you use the 6-volt stock set up. It's heavy wire and 6 volt wiring is always heavier and typically better quality because of it. That right there may solve your issues if you are using stock original or very old corroded wiring.

Having said that, the old 6 volt worked just fine before I wanted to change the ignition. It's really mox nix either way. Your headlights are brighter on 12 versus 6 but that's about it.

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Old 12-12-2010, 08:54 PM   #42
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

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Originally Posted by pooch View Post
I am sure I have read articles in the likes of popular mechanics, that said an A model generator could be modified to arc weld with.
Pooch you can weld with anything that will put out a steady 30+ amps. It's sketchy though and best for emergency fixes. It's not great for the Generator though, all that is is a directly shorted situation.


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Old 12-12-2010, 10:41 PM   #43
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

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Originally Posted by van Dyck View Post
"With a few MODS the model A generator can be brought up to 60 amp capability."
Purdy, I'm interested in knowing what is required to bring the 'A' generator up to this capability.
The armature and field coils will need to be changed and a cooler band will be needed.

If you have the 2010 Brattons catalog, look on page 65 , upper center column and you will see the new 60 amp armature. The part number is 15002 and the price is $75.00 . The field coils are listed on page 68 . The Fun Projects voltage regulator WON'T work with the 60 amp set up. The Peterson band style regulator will probably work but the connections are CLOSE. You could call Brattons info number for their recommendations. The info number is (301) 829-9880. Good luck.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:36 PM   #44
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

Thanks for the info, Purdy.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:20 AM   #45
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

I was talking to a guy in my guard unit and his brother went to a place that can rebuild a Model A gen. as a 12v-allegedly. All this apparently in the same case. Now, keeping the gen. the same I assume I would just have to change the bat./coil/and bulbs, right? I assume (I still have to check this lead out) that it would be a positive ground. What about the horn, do I still need to reduce the voltage?

If I am following the post correctly, the only benefits are:faster starts, faster charging and brighter lights is that correct?

What about rebuilding the generator so that it puts out 7 or 8 volts? Just enough to give it a little more oomph?

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Old 12-16-2010, 12:28 PM   #46
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

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If you want 60 amp capability the generator rebuild will require the mods that I outlined above. The generator will work positive or negative ground, but will need to be polarized as such. Of coarse you will have to change the common sense items such as battery and bulbs. You can still use the 6V coil if you use a ballast resistor. I chose to use the Pertronix 40.000 volt flame thrower coil. This coil is a 3.0 OHM epoxy filled coil that will mount and look just like any other replacement coil. Or you could use any 3.0 ohm replacement coil. You will need a voltage reducer for the horn if it is an original.

The advantage of 12 volt is faster cranking, brighter lights and readily available parts such as batteries, bulbs, battery cables, and coils.

The stock model A generator will charge 6, 8, or 12 volts without any modification but will put out less amps unless the armature is changed.

I am running a stock generator in our roadster on 12 volt. With this 12V setup I use the Fun Projects can style voltage regulator, this setup will charge 8 to 10 regulated amps. This is plenty enough amps for the brighter Austrailian halogen bulbs and faster cranking. Fun Projects also sells an 8 volt regulator if a person chooses to go that route. Eight volt batteries are more expensive and harder to find and really sets the hair on some of the die hards a$$es, even worse than the 12 volt conversion. If you change over it is best to keep it a secret, most will never know unless they see the battery, because there is NO other visable changes.

You can get the Austrailian halogen bulbs in 6V but they cost more and don't last as long, these bulbs are brighter than the 50 candle power original type bulbs but not nearly as powerful as the Quartz halogen bulbs that can be used with the 60 amp set up.
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:33 PM   #47
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

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Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida View Post
Since you asked. I've been around Model A long enough to see owners want to change things thinking they have too.

Let me give you some examples;

Install the new Zenith carb. Dyno test have proven that a rebuilt old Zenith will provide GREATER horsepower then the new but it is easier to just buy something then have the old sent out, even for the same money. New must be better!

I need Halogen lamps, instead of properly aligning, focusing, cleaning reflectors.

My front end shimmies so I need a "steering stabilizer" instead of rebuilding the axles and steering parts.

I need juice brakes so I can stop better instead of adjusting what is already there. Some how locking up the wheel with juce brakes is better than locking them up with stock brakes.

I need 12 volt so I can get a jump start.

Do I need to go on?

Does someone want to make the changes because they want to, since it is their car or do them want to make changes, or because they think it is better due to poor maintenance?

We ask the question why to get to the real reason for the change.

And since the Admin of this site has stated; "The ford barn will focus on restoration... And stock fords. We might have a side bar here and there, but restoration will remain the focus. Once the novelty wears off the new format, we will start pointing more in that direction.", we ask the question why to try to maintain a stock model A.

With all that said, this is from Kens garage;

Battery
Any good 12 Volt battery will do as long as it will fit your battery box and hold down. I selected a 72 month, 675 cranking amp, universal battery.
Alternator
I installed a GM 63 Amp Alternator with an internal self exciting voltage regulator. The hook up is one wire, the same as the existing generator. You will need to make two small brackets to mount the alternator or you can use two shackle bars and drill out for the proper size bolts. An alternator pulley can be purchased from your friendly Model A parts supplier.
Starter
No modifications are necessary to the starter. Just touch the pedal and enjoy really fast starts.
Ammeter
I changed the standard 20 amp ammeter to a 30 amp ammeter as an alternator will peg the standard meter. You must reverse the leads on the ammeter due to the change in polarity of the battery. Your neighborhood Model A parts supplier carries the 30 amp ammeter.
Headlights
Since I installed an alternator I opted to go all the way for headlights and convert to Halogen bulbs. The conversion is relatively easy. You can purchase a kit to modify your existing reflectors or you can purchase new reflectors with the Halogen sockets installed. You must install an alternator to successfully operate Halogen bulbs.
6 Volt kits are available. What a pleasure to be able to really see while driving at night.
Ignition
You could install a 12 volt coil and a resistor to reduce the voltage to the points.
I elected to install a PerTronix IGNITOR electronic ignition system. This is an extremely easy system to install as it fits entirely inside the distributor; no outside boxes are required. Kits are available for the standard Model A or B, early V8, and Mallory distributors. Both 6 and 12 kits are available.
Kits are furnished with a new coil as the correct coil resistance is very important for proper operation. Kits are distributed by: Remund Ignitions, Inc.
P.O. Box 857
Lemon Grove, CA 91946-0857
(619)460-3620
Horn
Getting the horn to work properly was the most perplexing part of the conversion. I tried several "voltage reducers" from the local parts stores but none could handle the current demands of the Model A horn. I finally purchased a 0 to 2 Ohm variable power resistor with a 100 watt rating from an electronics supply house. I selected a variable resistor in order to optimize the voltage to the horn.
The resistor I purchased was am Ohmite D100K2RO ($15.87) with two Type 12 brackets ($0.55 ea.) (Newark stock nos. 13F671 & (2) 13F099) from:
Newark Electronics
1-800-463-9275
Branch offices of Newark are located throughout the United States. Minimum order is $25.00. An alternate approach would be to puchase a 12 volt horn.
Light Bulbs
The following bulbs can be used with a 12 volt system: Cowl, Tail, and Dash Lights - #89, 6 cp
Dome Light - #67/97, 4 cp
Stop Lights - #1156/10, 32 cp
Turn Signals
If you have a Signal-Stat turn signal it will be necessary to change the flasher to a Signal-Stat #180 and the bulb to a #1445.
I agree with you. I see people buying the dumbest things. Advertising sells.
People say you must be scared when you down Main street with mechanical brakes. I usually do not reply. I think a lot of the remarks about the old ways is generated by people that never did maintenance on the their cars in the old days. I might buy an alternator if they looked like the original generator or the power house generator but probably not. I am glad that people ask why and I always like new ideas. I am running a Yapp two port head so I probably should not be talking. I think the reason a lot of people want to change stuff is because somebody criticized their car and hurt their eagle.

I have some friends with some expensive cars (150.000 to 200000) built by some custom car builder. They will be at car show and my primered model "A" gets more attention then their cars. I answer more questions and meet more people than my friends. They usually get a trophy of some kind and I never have received an award, but I get the satisfaction that I did all the work myself and I actually stole the show.

What is really funny is when I do not enter the show and park off the show grounds and there will be a crowd around the model "A".
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Last edited by sturgis 39; 12-16-2010 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:55 PM   #48
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

Does any one have a wiring diagram for 12 volt alt in 1930 Model A. No other mods made to electrical system
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:20 PM   #49
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

The only change to the original wiring will be to reverse the wires at the ammeter and coil. The reason for this is because the 12 volt alternators are negative ground and the battery must also be hooked up negative ground.You will need to use a ballast resistor if you use your present coil. I use a 3.0 OHM coil for my 12 volt conversions because it is internally resisted and needs no ballast
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:37 PM   #50
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

I just love it when three year old threads filled with opinion and misinformation come bubbling back up to the top! I wish there was a 'legacy closing timer' or something so very old threads would become read only.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:40 PM   #51
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A



Don't it's not nessary!
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:13 PM   #52
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

Sometimes it ain't so much what a person needs. It can just be what they want and only they should have the right to decide!!!
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:39 PM   #53
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

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Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft View Post
Sometimes it ain't so much what a person needs. It can just be what they want and only they should have the right to decide!!!
Right, as long as they don't want it because they think they NEED it due to some bad information.

My neighbor still thinks for a Model A to be a reliable touring car it needs to have a Chevy 350.
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:11 PM   #54
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

They don't have to be changed . I've drove them six volt for years. I just wanted to do our roadster 12 volt because its such an easy conversion. It uses all the original parts except the battery. Voltage regulator, barrel starter drive and 3.0 ohm coil are all options. It can be changed back to six volt , mostly by changing batteries and bulbs and as long as it remains positive ground,not a single wire will have to be changed. This is all a real novelty for me and has been for the past several years. My other cars are still six volt.
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:33 PM   #55
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

had my 30 for 12 years, changing to 12 volts 5 years ago was a good change,it is saving me time and money
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:26 PM   #56
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

If you run a wire across the terminals of the ammeter some of the current will go through the wire and some through the ammeter. I run a 10 gauge wire in case the ammeter fails and all of the current goes through the wire. Depending on your wiring diagram you might be able to do this at the terminal box on the firewall. Your reading will be low but it will be cheaper and you can keep the original ammeter. And in conclusion I agree with the other posts, forget the electric heater.

Charlie Stephens

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Old 12-16-2013, 05:16 PM   #57
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

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Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
Right, as long as they don't want it because they think they NEED it due to some bad information.

My neighbor still thinks for a Model A to be a reliable touring car it needs to have a Chevy 350.
Hey Tom,
Hmm, I think that he meant...more reliable...in which case !
I know a very smart ....older than dirt gentleman (auto mechanic/inventor/machinist and teacher!) who was wacko about ford flatheads...as in he knew it all ..for real ! He had a dozen V12 flatheads, including the one he rebuilt that was in his stunning '41 Lincoln coupe. He and family toured long distance. Eventually , he replaced the V12 with a Chev 350. When asked WHAT THE HECK...he smiled and said..'reliability' . I thanked him, as I have that flathead V12 now
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:58 PM   #58
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Default Re: Advice to change 6 volt to 12 volt Model A

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I just love it when three year old threads filled with opinion and misinformation come bubbling back up to the top! I wish there was a 'legacy closing timer' or something so very old threads would become read only.
I agree this thread is 3 years old like you said.
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