Totally Rouge '51 Custom??

[Old Henry]

Just took an overnight trip with a friend of mine who had bought this '51 Custom a few years back. He knew the full history of it and said it had never been repainted, reupholsterered, re-engined or re-drivelined and had 63,000 original miles. It has only had the front carpet replaced. I'm inclined to believe him because I don't think he knows much of Ford clubs or the Barn nor the meaning of the word "Rouge" so wouldn't be making this up to impress me. I don't know much about these later Fords but it looks and sounds like to me he has a pretty amazing Rouge car in excellent condition. What do you think? Could it be?

[David J]

Definately NOT into the car show thing but that is a NICE CAR in my book . My Dad bought a brand new 1950 4d that he had until 1959 & I actually remember the car . He traded his 35 cabriolet in on it & got a whopping $125.00 for it complete with sears rebuilt motor.

[ford38v8]

From the pictures, it looks like not only a Rouge in all 3 areas, but concieveably a contender for a Dearborn. Judges hate to see such a great survivor going for point judging though, and having to nitpick it's condition, when actually it's the condition that makes it so great!

[Lawson Cox]

Awesome 51. Definitely a Rouge vehicle.

[Brendan]

looks like a nice car to me!

[felix37]

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Looks like a great car! would love to own it!

[Russ/40]

Sure looks correct. Amazing car. My 49 was like that, but the 51s are a much better car. The fit on my '49 was horrible. Early 49s, nothing fit right.

[jerry grayson]

VERY nice car!! The front bumper guards are missing, added dual exhaust, front carpet added (should be rubber mat) and I am not sure what the red light on the dash is.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by jerry grayson

VERY nice car!! The front bumper guards are missing, added dual exhaust, front carpet added (should be rubber mat) and I am not sure what the red light on the dash is.

He has front bumper gaurds he got off of ebay but they weren't as nice when he got them as they looked on ebay so need rechromed before installing.

The car started out as the car the city provided to the chief of police to use, not necessarily as a police car. It is believed that is the reason for two spot lights and dual exhaust. When the police chief retired the car was given to him as his personal car.

Paul (my friend that owns the car) said he knew something was not quite right about the front floor and maybe that was it - was originally rubber mat rather than carpet.

Thanks for the info. Paul will appreciate it.

(P.S. Just to add to the "ambience" of the police chief's car, Paul has installed a vintage siren in front of the radiator you can just see in the last engine photo. The siren is 12 volt and runs through an inverter. He also has a red light for the roof that I believe plugs into the lighter socket under the dash.)

[Cecil/WV]

Maybe the rubber mat is under the carpet.

[Mike51Merc]

Great car, but it looks like they stole my grandma's living room carpet from 1968!

[jaxV8carz]

I've seen one other Fordomatic with the red indicator light on the left end of the dash. Was told it was a reminder for the emergency brake, coulda been an aftermarket add-on. Beautiful car.

[FL&WVMIKE]

Old Henry ...................
Looks good to me !
It must have been kept in a plastic baggie.
MIKE

[Vic Piano]

That’s a really nice survivor. Hope he drives it and has fun with it.

[charles in east texas]

Wonder why they had to change the carb somewhere before 63,000?
You gotta watch some of these so-called unrestored cars.
Charles

[charles in east texas]

On second thought, maybe that was correct on a ford-0-matic. Charles

[Ford46]

Tell your friend to go to the EFV8CA Western Meet in Oregon and pick up his Rouge Plaque (most likely in all categories)!!!! Very nice car and in tremendous condition....LouB.

[sunshine]

he better find some front bumper guards ,rubber mats ,the carb. has adash pot for the FORDAMATIC. or he could go for apartial rouge.SUNSHINE

[3738]

My 37 Tudor picked up the Rouge award in all categories.

IIRC, you can have some minor changes/inconsistencies in the exterior, drivetrain and interior and still get all (3) categories.

[Old Henry]

My friend is now in chemotherapy three times a week for cancer so is wanting to sell his triple rouge '51 Custom and wants to know the best way to do it. I've never bought nor sold a classic car so have no advice. If anyone can offer any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated and I'll pass them on to him. Also - a suggested starting price for the sale.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by jaxV8carz

I've seen one other Fordomatic with the red indicator light on the left end of the dash. Was told it was a reminder for the emergency brake, coulda been an aftermarket add-on. Beautiful car.

My '51 (stick) car has a red light ,too, except mine is under the dash, attached to the lower flange. Mine is obviously an emergency brake warning light, as it is connected by a light multi-strand cable to the emergency brake handle. I would have to believe that mine is not from the factory.

That's a great looking car. My first '51 in high school was a 4 door.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Boy, that car can get lost in a snow bank. Beauty Walt

[corvette8n]

Sorry to hear about your friends health, tell him to hang in there, he has a very nice car.

[TJ]

If he decides to sell, it should not be advertised as a Rouge car. To be a Rouge car it has to have documentation from the Early Ford V-8 Club. If he believes it to be original he can certainly say that and then it's up to him to prove it. It looks like a nice car and just from the photos the chrome looks too good to be 51 chrome which wasn't worth a hoot even from the factory. The front carpet looks like it came out of somebody's bedroom and would be a killer if the car was judged on the interior. As a general rule if this was a police car it would have been a low trim model. I doubt that a police car(even a detective car in those days) would have the extra stainless trim on the front fenders, the stainless trim around the gas door and the backup lights. I think there should be some documentation to indicate that it did indeed belong to police chief.
This is a very nice old sedan, but if someone is selling a car they should have proof of the statements made about prior ownership. A smart buyer will ask for the documentation. JMHO

[Mike51Merc]

Originally Posted by TJ

If he decides to sell, it should not be advertised as a Rouge car. To be a Rouge car it has to have documentation from the Early Ford V-8 Club. If he believes it to be original he can certainly say that and then it's up to him to prove it. It looks like a nice car and just from the photos the chrome looks too good to be 51 chrome which wasn't worth a hoot even from the factory. The front carpet looks like it came out of somebody's bedroom and would be a killer if the car was judged on the interior. As a general rule if this was a police car it would have been a low trim model. I doubt that a police car(even a detective car in those days) would have the extra stainless trim on the front fenders, the stainless trim around the gas door and the backup lights. I think there should be some documentation to indicate that it did indeed belong to police chief.
This is a very nice old sedan, but if someone is selling a car they should have proof of the statements made about prior ownership. A smart buyer will ask for the documentation. JMHO

Have you never seen "Smokey and the Bandit" ?----- but seriously not all "police" cars are fleet cars or strippers--- it just depends on the departmental budget. They can buy off the showroom floor too. In this case I don't think the police history impacts value anyway.

SO by the way can anybody explain what this Rouge stuff is all about?

[Old Henry]

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Originally Posted by Mike51Merc

SO by the way can anybody explain what this Rouge stuff is all about?

Here's my understanding: It is an award given by the Early Ford V8 Club of America to cars that are still original that have not been restored. It is named after the River Rouge on which the Ford plant was located in Dearborn Michigan. Three categories of original condition are recognized: drive train, body, and upholstery. So, a car may receive Rouge recognition if the drive train is still all original even if the body and upholstery have been restored, etc. The highest Rouge recognition is when all three categories are original and unrestored. That is the Dearborn award.

If I missed anything someone chime in to correct.

[Mike51Merc]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

Here's my understanding: It is an award given by the Early Ford V8 Club of America to cars that are still original that have not been restored. It is named after the River Rouge on which the Ford plant was located in Dearborn Michigan. Three categories of original condition are recognized: drive train, body, and upholstery. So, a car may receive Rouge recognition if the drive train is still all original even if the body and upholstery have been restored, etc. The highest Rouge recognition is when all three categories are original and unrestored. That is the Dearborn award.

If I missed anything someone chime in to correct.

It must be fairly obscure because Google gave me nothing related to it. So it recognizes what some people call "Survivors" (an unrestored running original in very good condition), although some people call any car that hasn't been crushed a Survivor, especially in the classified ads.

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

The highest Rouge recognition is when all three categories are original and unrestored. That is the Dearborn award.

If I missed anything someone chime in to correct.

Greetings Everyone; Professor, Mostly correct. Here's my two cents. The Dearborn Award is for point judged cars (which have earned 950 out of 1000, possibly on two occasions), usually the premier restored cars. Dearborn cars are in equal condition to showroom or as the club says "As Henry Built It."

Rouge are un-restored within reason (I believe the threshold is 90% original, in at least one of the three categories).

To add a little... It would be a very unusual car that could compete in both classes (in two different meets). For example the slight tear on the driver's front seat is not a deduction for Rouge because the seat cover is (assumed from here to be...) original no matter the condition, but a definite deduction for Concourse/Dearborn because that wouldn't fly in the showroom.

I personally don't have a car that qualifies for either class, so I'm not totally in tune with the rules for some of the V8 Club awards.

[TJ]

Originally Posted by Mike51Merc

Have you never seen "Smokey and the Bandit" ?----- but seriously not all "police" cars are fleet cars or strippers--- it just depends on the departmental budget. They can buy off the showroom floor too. In this case I don't think the police history impacts value anyway.

SO by the way can anybody explain what this Rouge stuff is all about?

I think if you read my post I said "as a general rule" police cars were the low trim models. In days gone by some places paid the chief to use his own car for official business. The police history can impact the value. Not specifically because it was a police car, but it does trace previous owners. Being able to contact previous owners can tell a person if the owner made any changes to the car, etc. Tracing previous owners and documenting the cars history can have a definite impact on the value of a nice original car. Some people may not care about history, but many do care.
I don't know if you are an Early ford V-8 club member or not, but if you are there is a complete listing on the judging categories in the front of the club roster. Jeff has given a good definition between Dearborn and Rouge class. Since these are categories specific to the V-8 club "Google' may not have that information. You can find the information at; www.earlyfordv8.org.

[Old Henry]

This car was not used as a "police car". It was used by the police chief then was given it to him for personal use when he retired.

[flatford8]

Great car !!!!....IMHO what shoebox isn't??? It ain't just about '32-'40....The seat belts wouldn't be factory would they??....As far as selling it, sorry to hear he has health issues... maybe somebody in his family wants it or he could get someone from EFV8 to help him. At least help him price it....$15k ish???...I'm basing that on a comparison to mine. Mine is certainly not a Rouge car...But when I'm going down the road, looking out the winshield, it feels like it's worth a million bucks.... Mark

[Old Henry]

He's had it for sale for a month at $15,000 on a statewide classified here in Utah and has had one call. I suggested he list it nationally on Hemmings, Classic Cars, or eBay.

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

He's had it for sale for a month at $15,000 on a statewide classified here in Utah and has had one call. I suggested he list it nationally on Hemmings, Classic Cars, or eBay.

Good advice I'd say....Mark

[rotorwrench]

The more folks see it, the better chance that it will attract a buyer for sure. 4-door cars aren't as attractive as the 2-door models but some folks are looking for nostalgia and may have had some of their best times in a 4-door like that.

I'd love to have a 51 Merc coupe but I have a lot of fond memories for my Dads old 4-door 51 Sport Sedan so I'd say there could be a buyer out there that would like to have an old memory back or even just to have an historic original. Not too many cars out there that are that old and still in that nice a condition these days.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

He's had it for sale for a month at $15,000 on a statewide classified here in Utah and has had one call. I suggested he list it nationally on Hemmings, Classic Cars, or eBay.

For your perusal this price guide from NADA.


http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1951/Ford/Custom/4-Door-Sedan/Values

[40cpe]

That's a really nice car. A two-door with overdrive in that condition could be worth $15000.

[Mike51Merc]

You can also go to www.hagerty.com and use their price guide.

[Ianrhall]

What is a rouge award? Don't have that in the uk
Ian

[TJ]

Originally Posted by VeryTangled

Greetings Everyone; Professor, Mostly correct. Here's my two cents. The Dearborn Award is for point judged cars (which have earned 950 out of 1000, possibly on two occasions), usually the premier restored cars. Dearborn cars are in equal condition to showroom or as the club says "As Henry Built It."

Rouge are un-restored within reason (I believe the threshold is 90% original, in at least one of the three categories).

To add a little... It would be a very unusual car that could compete in both classes (in two different meets). For example the slight tear on the driver's front seat is not a deduction for Rouge because the seat cover is (assumed from here to be...) original no matter the condition, but a definite deduction for Concourse/Dearborn because that wouldn't fly in the showroom.

I personally don't have a car that qualifies for either class, so I'm not totally in tune with the rules for some of the V8 Club awards.

Ian, here's a good summary of the Rouge award that is given by the Early Ford V-8 Club.

[Ianrhall]

I was told my 53 won a/some rouge awards, wasn't sure what it meant!
Thanks
Ian

[TJ]

Ian if you bought the car and it was judged as a Rouge car there is a record of the award in the files of the Early Ford V-8 Club.

[Pat/Ohio]

Henry...I hate that your friend is fighting cancer. Tell him to hang in there. They have come a long way in combating this terrible disease. I sold a couple of my cars when I learned I had cancer. That was over a year ago. I felt so good this past spring that I purchased a car! I pray a lot and a lot a folks pray for me....it works! God bless you both.

Pat

[Bob NH]

Interesting about awards. I have before me, an AACA first prize winner for 1980 and also a Dearborn award winner, both came with my car. I keep them on a shelve inside and not on the car as many do. I guess they help if your selling ?

[TJ]

Originally Posted by Bob NH

Interesting about awards. I have before me, an AACA first prize winner for 1980 and also a Dearborn award winner, both came with my car. I keep them on a shelve inside and not on the car as many do. I guess they help if your selling ?

They do help and when you sell the awards should go with the car.JMHO

[oldogy]

FWIW from someone old enough to know these cars when new and who drove them when nearly new: Although not common, a high end car was sometimes provided for a popular city public figure, C of P, Fire chief, other. I remember a fire chief who had a bright red Buick Super as his official vehicle, certainly not normal. Another option could have been a vehicle allowance and the official in mention bought his own. The outgoing sheriff in my area has driven a fully optioned late model Ford F350 CC for years. Department signage clearly displayed thereon. It certainly is not what would be considered a fleet type vehicle. The mods on the '51 appear to be nicely done. Beautiful car.

[Old Henry]

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My good friend passed away last month and his widow has asked that I sell his car for him. I'm just putting together the listing and need the capacity of the original 8ba engine. What is it?

[V8COOPMAN]

239 cubic inches! DD

[AKCJ]

Sorry to hear about your friend. I was given a 53 motor that was out of a police car and it has factory dual exhaust. After doing some research I discovered that they put the merc 4" crank motor in the (Ford) police intercepter cars (with dual exhaust). It could be that it's a 255 inch motor. I'm not saying it is, just bringing it up because of the dual exhaust and police history. Someone posted some of this info here on the Barn not long ago.

[Old Henry]

Thanks for the info.
Driving the car to my house yesterday it didn't seem to have any more power than my 47 with the 239 cu.in. in it so probably not bigger than that.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by TJ

... As a general rule if this was a police car it would have been a low trim model. I doubt that a police car(even a detective car in those days) would have the extra stainless trim on the front fenders, the stainless trim around the gas door and the backup lights. JMHO

I knew a local deputy that drove a 68 Ford Cobra Jet Torino fastback as his duty car in 68-69. It even had dual quads and was the bright red Ford called Candy Apple red with no police markings whatsoever.

[Marv]

Originally Posted by LazarusLong

I knew a local deputy that drove a 68 Ford Cobra Jet Torino fastback as his duty car in 68-69. It even had dual quads and was the bright red Ford called Candy Apple red with no police markings whatsoever.

He must have been a realy nice guy. Driving around in that cobra suckering the other owners of high performance cars into road racing etc.

[keith oh]

I believe Ford called that color Sea Mist Green, at least they did on 1949 cars.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by Marv

He must have been a realy nice guy. Driving around in that cobra suckering the other owners of high performance cars into road racing etc.

And that's what it was all about. A rural county with lots of open space and empty roads,most races were top end,not quarter mile.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by keith oh

I believe Ford called that color Sea Mist Green, at least they did on 1949 cars.

In 1951 it's called Sea Island Green. Looks the same to me,and I have no idea how or why they came up with these goofy names.

My current favorite for my coupe is a 51 color named Sportsman Green. It looks to me like the 51 color named Sungate Ivory,which is yellow instead of ivory,with a little bit of lime green mixed in. To me it looks to be either pale yellow or pale lime green,depending on the light.

BTW,these two photos are of the same car.

Whatever it is,I sure do like it.

[Fredb_]

Beautiful automobile!!

[TonyM]

Sorry about your friend. Take care.