The last and the first

[Old Henry]

Ever notice how it is ALWAYS the last thing that you do to try to fix a problem that actually fixes it? Whether it's the first thing you try, the 6th, or the 12th, it's always the very LAST thing you do that fixes it. And, too frequently, the ultimate solution to the problem is the simplest thing that you actually thought of first but dismissed as too simple and easy.

I just went through that with my fuel delivery problem on a 51 Custom I'm trying to sell for a friend. My first thought was vapor lock but I tried my usual quick diagnostic fix for that and it didn't work so I went on to replace the gas cap, replace the fuel pump, replace the fuel lines from the tank to the flex line and from the pump to the carb, and replace the flex line with one from Shewman with a check valve in it. None of it fixed the problem. So, what was I left with but to return to possible vapor lock? With some additional and more exhaustive and thorough testing such proved to be the problem all along from the start and was fixed with an electric fuel pump. The last thing I did fixed it which was the first thing I thought of.

[FL&WVMIKE]

OLD HENRY ..........................
Of course, it's the last thing you do, that fixes the problem. After yo fix it, you are not going to try to fix it, again !
It's just like, when you lose something, it's always found in the last place, you looked.
MIKE (mikeburch)

[Old Henry]

So, there you go, responding to the profound with simplicity.

The response I had hoped for was, "Gee, I never realized that. That is amazing how that ALWAYS works. I wonder why that is."

[JSeery]

Lol

[Mart]

It's like when you lose something and it's always in the last place you look.

Glad you fixed it.

Mart.

[cmbrucew]

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Professor
Glad you were able to eliminate that issue on a beautiful car.
Someone will be able to enjoy owning and driving a good old car.
Wish it was me.
Bruce

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

OLD HENRY ..........................

It's just like, when you lose something, it's always found in the last place, you looked.
MIKE (mikeburch)

Originally Posted by Mart

It's like when you lose something and it's always in the last place you look.

Mart.

Is there an echo in here?

[Seth Swoboda]

Last night I found what I was looking for in the second place I looked. I was rather pleased with that.

[Mart]

Serves me right not to skim read.

[Kahuna]

Yes, Seth. It was right where you left it.
It's always the back-tracking that's difficult

[FireEngineMike]

Would one of you please tell me where my safety glasses are. They disappeared from the back seat of my car after my last trip to the storage unit to finish the distributor install.

[Binx]

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

OLD HENRY ..........................
Of course, it's the last thing you do, that fixes the problem. After yo fix it, you are not going to try to fix it, again !(mikeburch)

Unless you work for the government.....


Lonnie

[AKCJ]

I'm still having dreams about that 51 . . . .

[SofaKing]

Gee, I never realized that. That is amazing how that ALWAYS works. I wonder why that is?

[Bill Wright]

I was just about to say the same thing!
Amazing how that works out!
I'll have to puzzle out why that is!

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by SofaKing

Gee, I never realized that. That is amazing how that ALWAYS works. I wonder why that is?

Originally Posted by Bill Wright

I was just about to say the same thing!
Amazing how that works out!
I'll have to puzzle out why that is!

That's more like it. Help a dumb guy trying to look smart think he really is.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

Last night I found what I was looking for in the second place I looked.

So, was that:

A. Second to the last place.
B. Second to the first place.
C. First to the last place.
D. B. & C.
E. A. & B.
F. A. & C.
G. All of the above.
H. None of the above.
I. I don't know.*
J. I don't give a darn.^


BTW, did you know that Hu really is on first?



* Third base.
^ Short stop.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by FireEngineMike

Would one of you please tell me where my safety glasses are. They disappeared from the back seat of my car after my last trip to the storage unit to finish the distributor install.

If you ask my wife she'll tell you. "Right where you left them."
(Yeah. So, where was that?)

[41ford1]

I glad you cured the problem. The thing that bothers me is the video you posted of the trail of bubbles in the clear tubing. Is the heat source causing the vapor lock condition the under hood temps or the exhaust pipe heating the fuel line from the tank? It is also possible there is a leak in the fuel line that allows air to be drawn in when the pump is pulling fuel when the engine is running. I would be inclined to monitor the fuel line to be sure no fuel is leaking under pressure from the new electric pump.

Originally Posted by Old Henry

Ever notice how it is ALWAYS the last thing that you do to try to fix a problem that actually fixes it? Whether it's the first thing you try, the 6th, or the 12th, it's always the very LAST thing you do that fixes it. And, too frequently, the ultimate solution to the problem is the simplest thing that you actually thought of first but dismissed as too simple and easy.

I just went through that with my fuel delivery problem on a 51 Custom I'm trying to sell for a friend. My first thought was vapor lock but I tried my usual quick diagnostic fix for that and it didn't work so I went on to replace the gas cap, replace the fuel pump, replace the fuel lines from the tank to the flex line and from the pump to the carb, and replace the flex line with one from Shewman with a check valve in it. None of it fixed the problem. So, what was I left with but to return to possible vapor lock? With some additional and more exhaustive and thorough testing such proved to be the problem all along from the start and was fixed with an electric fuel pump. The last thing I did fixed it which was the first thing I thought of.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by 41ford1

I glad you cured the problem. The thing that bothers me is the video you posted of the trail of bubbles in the clear tubing. Is the heat source causing the vapor lock condition the under hood temps or the exhaust pipe heating the fuel line from the tank? It is also possible there is a leak in the fuel line that allows air to be drawn in when the pump is pulling fuel when the engine is running. I would be inclined to monitor the fuel line to be sure no fuel is leaking under pressure from the new electric pump.

Through my testing I've concluded that the vapor lock starts in the fuel line coming up and attached to the fire wall. That was the source of the bubbles in the clear tube. I had thought the same thing about the fuel line over the exhaust pipe so insulated it. Didn't help. Fuel line is now all new and no leaks.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by AKCJ

I'm still having dreams about that 51 . . . .

So, buy it. Here's the ad on Hemmings Motor News that tells all about it: http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/...m/1759009.html

[Drbrown]

So she said it doesn't matter who's on first, second and third. The guy who makes last base wins.

[dwick01]

Looks to be a beautiful car Professor, and priced right!

[ccnelson]

Beautiful car, glad you got it running.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

So, was that:

A. Second to the last place.
B. Second to the first place.
C. First to the last place.
D. B. & C.
E. A. & B.
F. A. & C.
G. All of the above.
H. None of the above.
I. I don't know.*
J. I don't give a darn.^


BTW, did you know that Hu really is on first?



* Third base.
^ Short stop.

HAHA! I'm going with "G"

That is a nice '51 your helping your friend with. Perhaps you can add it to your collection for your grandchildren to enjoy?

[Terry,OH]

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Why does a mechanical pencil only run out of lead when your using it?

[COE Dan]

Of course you could solve a problem you didn't have like I did.

I bought a '32-35 coil for a '34 pickup that is equipped with an aftermarket modern cylindrical coil mounted on the intake and connected to the helmet distributor by a wire. I wanted to remove the non-original setup and go back to stock. Easy fix? Nope.

I went to install the '34 coil and found out the engine is equipped with a younger distributor that takes the 2-screw coils...I have three of those on the shelf.

Now I've got to find a stock '34 distributor if I want to go pure stock...a problem I didn't know I had.

So maybe the last fix doesn't always solve the problem.

[ford38v8]

Henry, I'm the sceptic. You say that your "tests" prove that you had vapor lock, which went away when you installed an electric fuel pump. I say bull. The electric fuel pump didn't cure the problem, it simply disguised it by pressurizing the line, thereby eliminating the source of the bubbles present when the line had negative pressure. The problem is still there, waiting for the new owner to discover it, hopefully not by accident.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Henry, I'm the sceptic. You say that your "tests" prove that you had vapor lock, which went away when you installed an electric fuel pump. I say bull. The electric fuel pump didn't cure the problem, it simply disguised it by pressurizing the line, thereby eliminating the source of the bubbles present when the line had negative pressure. The problem is still there, waiting for the new owner to discover it, hopefully not by accident.

So, what do you suggest?

[keith oh]

Henry, You fixed the symptom not the problem. Thousands and thousands of 5ls ran very well years and years without electric fuel pumps. I had a 5l in my service days that ran all over the US, even out in hot, dry west Texas for over over 100 K miles with no booster pump. In the medical field giving a pain pill to cure a sore throat is treating a symptom not curing the disease.

[Binx]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Henry, I'm the sceptic. You say that your "tests" prove that you had vapor lock, which went away when you installed an electric fuel pump. I say bull. The electric fuel pump didn't cure the problem, it simply disguised it by pressurizing the line, thereby eliminating the source of the bubbles present when the line had negative pressure. The problem is still there, waiting for the new owner to discover it, hopefully not by accident.

Alan, check your logic. Old Henry's solution is the equivalent of a modern pressurized radiator. Some folks could run all day and not lose a drop with unpressurized systems while some had fits. The industry pressurized the cooling systems to make everyone happy. Remember, he lives at a pretty high altitude which tends to make hot stuff vaporize sooner.

Lonnie

[ford38v8]

Henry, you've had many suggestions that have been ignored or discounted as too expensive. You declare that you were correct in your diagnosis from the outset and have solved the problem without benefit of any suggestions from anyone. Our criticism is constructive, but you view it with blinders on as you have viewed all suggestions that didn't agree with your Taiwan Tool Box diagnosis.

My suggestion at this point is to fully disclose the situation to the new buyer, in order to relieve yourself and the widow of future liability.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Henry, you've had many suggestions that have been ignored or discounted as too expensive. You declare that you were correct in your diagnosis from the outset and have solved the problem without benefit of any suggestions from anyone. Our criticism is constructive, but you view it with blinders on as you have viewed all suggestions that didn't agree with your Taiwan Tool Box diagnosis.

My suggestion at this point is to fully disclose the situation to the new buyer, in order to relieve yourself and the widow of future liability.

Eloquent and succinct, Alan. DD

[George/Maine]

I have not heard you looking at the carb.
What I think is going wrong is the needle valve is sticking.
When driving 40-50 you are using more gas, as you slow down the bowl starts to fill and the valve shuts the fuel off. maybe by putting more pressure you free the valve.
The top of carb can be taken off and check and clean the float and needle and seat.
If you can drive the car 100 miles I guess you fixed it. There is nothing left to change.
Also you could try a temp gauge, you can run hot in 50 deg weather.

[keith oh]

Attorney Henry, You should have remembered the old Attorney rule, "Never ask a question unless you know the answer".

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Binx

Alan, check your logic. Old Henry's solution is the equivalent of a modern pressurized radiator. Some folks could run all day and not lose a drop with unpressurized systems while some had fits. The industry pressurized the cooling systems to make everyone happy. Remember, he lives at a pretty high altitude which tends to make hot stuff vaporize sooner.

Lonnie

Lonnie, you nailed it. That explains why all of the typical fixes for fuel delivery problems that were suggested to me and I tried did not work in spite of our level of confidence that they would. It's like my 47 that I'm sure I have to run the electric fuel pump way more in the summer than anyone at lower elevations.

Thanks for that explanation.

And, thanks to everyone else that cared so much, stuck with me, even through numerous threads, and made so many suggestions to fix my fuel delivery problem, and especially to expavr for this post that steered me back toward vapor lock and the final solution to my problem - electric fuel pump.

Originally Posted by expavr

Have you tried placing a wet sponge/rag on the fuel line at the low point where it breaks up the firewall? I had a similar vapor lock issue on our RV which wouldn't start or would cut off when the fuel line got hot. By trial and error I found that by placing a wet sponge on the fuel filter which was located about 1/2 way down the chassis from the tank cured the problem. The other thing I noticed is that this vapor lock phenomenon only happened when the level of the gas in the fuel tank dropped below 1/4 tank from which I concluded that the cooling effect of a larger volume of fuel somehow contributed to vapor lock free operation.

It's amazing the knowledge here on the barn and the willingness and, in fact, true caring for each other to help each other find solutions to problems, yea, even with a passion. It's a great place to be.

[Binx]

You are quite welcome Sir. I know it still begs the question of how this wasn't a wide-spread problem way back when. Personally, I think gasoline formulations have changed within the last decade. I remember when I was in the Air Force in the 90's and a new jet fuel grade was being used in our planes in Europe. The explanation of the fuel's makeup was to distill to the gasoline level, then dilute it down to the kerosene level for jet engine use.

Even with today's non-ethanol fuel viewed in a glass jar, it looks different, smells different, lighter amber and less "swirly" in bright light.

I dunno. Maybe MrTexas can weigh-in since he was a petroleum engineer.

Lonnie

[Old Henry]

I know this: I drove my 47 for years in the 60's and can only remember a handful of vapor lock events. With no difference in hardware, location, climate, or elevation it is now a rampant problem. It can only be the change in gasoline formulation. That's why I finally caved in and put the electric fuel pump in it in spite of my strong commitment to authenticity. It turned out I could no longer have a truly authentic experience because the gasoline was no longer authentic. I got tired of getting out and pouring water on the fuel pump so put in the electric.

[JSeery]

Fuel pump Henry, you don't pour water on the water pump LOL I think it's the fuel difference.

[Old Henry]

Sometimes I got made and just poured water everywhere.

[JSeery]

Now that is funny! Do you run ethanol or non-ethanol gas? Can you get non-ethanol gas in Utah? I notice whenever we are in Colorado they have this stupid (IMHO) 85 octane gas and was just in New Mexico and they have it also!

[Old Henry]

Ethanol. There is only one station in the county that sells non-ethanol but it's 88 octane. I don't need octane that high. I run 85. And I don't worry about vapor lock any more since I installed the electric pump. So ethanol vs. non-ethanol is a moot point for me.

[JSeery]

Yep, just curious. So you do have the 85 octane, the lowest we have ever had locally is 87.

[Old Henry]

Yes. At higher elevations the need for higher octane is less so the lower octanes are sold that aren't sold at lower elevations and not the higher ones that are sold at low elevations. That means money saving for us at higher elevations because the lower octanes are cheaper. So, a car that the manufacturer says to run 89 octane can safely be run on 87 at our elevation saving money on gas. http://www.aaa.com/aaa/006/EnCompass...r_AutoTalk.htm

[richard crow]

henry it,s the last calf that kills the cow