49 overdrive ignition problem.

[Goose1]

Hi all , new here and need some help. I have a 49 coupe flathead v8 overdrive. It's converted to twelve volt negative ground and pertronix electronic ignition.The other day I was driving home and stepped down on it and it died. I can't get it started again. No spark at all. My question is , could the kickdown switch or something else prevent it from getting any spark at all ? I know that it momentarily cuts the ignition for downshifts but is it possible to cut the ignition permanently and prevent it from starting ? I have disconnected the kickdown wire from the coil and still get nothing. I'm not very good at electrical stuff but these aren't much more complicated than a lawn mower and I cannot figure it out. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Planojc]

I would try another ignition. Pertronix ignitions have been known to die.

[Goose1]

New module and coil.

[40cpe]

The kickdown switch momentarily grounds the ignition. If you have disconnected it I would think you have isolated it from the ignition system. Do you have voltage to the coil? If so, I would call Pertronix tech. They are vey good at diagnosing their units. The correct coil resistance is critical on the pertronix ignition. If resistance is too low it will burn the module. If you replace the module, be certain you have the correct coil.

[Alaska Jim]

Pertronixs systems do not like voltage spikes, and that is probably what occurred when the kickdown sw. momentarily grounded the system , and then re-energized. probably burnt out the module. just an educated guess, as they are know to just "up and quit "

[19Fordy]

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Be sure and ask Pertronix about buying a surge protector to prevent spikes from burning out your module. Here's info.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128555
Give Pertronix a call.
http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/default.aspx

[Mike51Merc]

When I installed my Pertronix (6 volt pos gnd) I disconnected the kickdown switch--- just to be safe.

To me the kickdown feature is unnecessary because simply manually downshifting to second-overdrive is nearly the same gear ratio as third-underdrive.

[Goose1]

This all started when I engaged the kickdown. The first couple times it died but came back when I let off the gas pedal. Third time I stepped down on it ,it died and never came back and won't start. Here's the kicker , I can check the voltage in the wire from the ignition to the coil with a volt meter and it reads about 11 volts. The battery reads 12.5 volts. However , when I use a test light on the wire coming from the ignition to the coil I get nothing. The test light works on everything else. This has got me totally stumped.

[FRANK PKNY]

I go with Mike. Just disconnect the kick down. You may have gotten a spike and ruined the module. I have been running Pertronix ignitions for many years without any problems. Five cars with them. They do not like voltage spikes.

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by Goose1

This all started when I engaged the kickdown. The first couple times it died but came back when I let off the gas pedal. Third time I stepped down on it ,it died and never came back and won't start. Here's the kicker , I can check the voltage in the wire from the ignition to the coil with a volt meter and it reads about 11 volts. The battery reads 12.5 volts. However , when I use a test light on the wire coming from the ignition to the coil I get nothing. The test light works on everything else. This has got me totally stumped.

disconnect the ignition wire from the switch to the coil and use a jumper from the battery to the coil to see if it will start.

[Goose1]

I'm concerned about why the test light won't come on when I check the wire coming from the ignition. The volt meter shows 11 volts but it won't light the test light. I've even tried the test light on a flashlight battery and it works??????

[40cpe]

A wire can transmit voltage but not have the capacity to support the current needed for ignition or a test light. Try the jumper wire. If it starts you will have to find the weak part of the circuit. Ignition switch, connections, ballast resister, broken wire?

[Goose1]

40cpe thank you ! So I'm not crazy ? I'm 70 and the ole head don't work as good as it used to and electrical stuff never did sink in much. I don't understand how this can happen but that helps. I just bought the test light. Up until now I've been using the volt meter. Then I try the test light and got nothing. I don't understand but il take your wood for it. I think I have ruined the module testing but I'm not going to replace it until I get power to the coil.

[40cpe]

Good choice! If it still doesn't run, call Pertronix tech. They will make sure you get the right parts to make it last.

[Mike51Merc]

OK, so far as the schematic and operation goes--- the solenoid has two wires, one is for power to the solenoid and the other is the "engine killer" wire. The engine killer only kills the engine for as long as it takes for the solenoid plunger to retract; after it retracts the contacts inside the solenoid open, thereby preventing the wire from grounding the ignition anymore.

If your engine continued to die, there may be a problem inside the solenoid that's causing the ground to stay constant. Inside the solenoid there is a fiber disk insulator. I'm seen them disintegrate (from being oil soaked). I replaced mine with a piece of sheet rubber.

[Goose1]

Mike51Merc , is there a diagram of the solenoid anywhere?

[Bob C]

Here's a couple diagrams. http://hermtheoverdriveguy.com/wp-co...-Schematic.pdf
http://www.fifthaveinternetgarage.co...ons_update.pdf

Bob

[40cpe]

He has already disconnected the kickdown wire from the coil. It should have no effect on the ignition operation now.

[Goose1]

I need to find out why I'm not getting power to the coilfrom the ignition switch. It shows 11 volts with a meter but won't light up a test light. It all started when I hit the kickdown switch.

[tubman]

I see at least two guys who have disabled their overdrives so they can run some piece of failure-prone electronic ignition that was not needed in the first place. Is there something wrong with this picture or is it just me?":

[40cpe]

I didn't see anybody who disabled their overdrives. They disabled the kickdown. Ever wonder why cars today don't run points distributors? Have you priced quality (if you can find them) points lately? These electronic units keep a constant dwell and constant voltage to the plugs. Sure, they aren't up to modern distributorless ignitions, but are light years ahead of points IMO. If you have Pertronix in a post mounted distributor, carry your points and condenser in your trunk along with a screwdriver. In the unlikely event it fails it is a 10 minute process to be running again.

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by Goose1

This all started when I engaged the kickdown. The first couple times it died but came back when I let off the gas pedal. Third time I stepped down on it ,it died and never came back and won't start. Here's the kicker , I can check the voltage in the wire from the ignition to the coil with a volt meter and it reads about 11 volts. The battery reads 12.5 volts. However , when I use a test light on the wire coming from the ignition to the coil I get nothing. The test light works on everything else. This has got me totally stumped.

From this description, It is probable that the solenoid is not releasing the ground. The first two kickdowns the ignition came back, but not on the third. The grounds could have burned open a weak link in the ignition circuit. Using the test light with the ignition on, trace the wire back to the ignition switch until you get voltage.

[tubman]

In my opinion, if i ain't working like it was designed to, it's broken. I have had my '51 club coupe since 1987. I put in new Echlin points, etc. when I got it. They are still running strong after almost 40 years and over 20,000 miles. I have never even considered carrying an extra set of points and a screwdriver. I also notice that everyone who suggests this specifies an extra set of points and not an extra Pertronix. Does that tell ya' something?

[flatford8]

Sorry I can't help with your problem as I don't have vehicles with O/D but, welcome to the Barn. I'm glad to see another Shoebox owner on here. I have a'50 Fordor, '51 Tudor and would love '49 Coupe. Good Luck and I hope you get it straightened out.... Mark

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Pertronix has a fix and a wiring diagram for the overdrive deal. Its in the early Ford pertronixs kit box. They need a couple diodes to prevent the shorting of the module. Bad news is your is burnt up. I would call pertronixs and plead my case....

[Frank Miller]

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Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION

Pertronix has a fix and a wiring diagram for the overdrive deal. Its in the early Ford pertronixs kit box. They need a couple diodes to prevent the shorting of the module. Bad news is your is burnt up. I would call pertronixs and plead my case....

No diodes I am aware of but there is a resistor that goes in the circuit that shorts the ignition. I have run this in my 49 for a good 4000 miles now with no problem.

[Mike51Merc]

Originally Posted by tubman

In my opinion, if i ain't working like it was designed to, it's broken. I have had my '51 club coupe since 1987. I put in new Echlin points, etc. when I got it. They are still running strong after almost 40 years and over 20,000 miles. I have never even considered carrying an extra set of points and a screwdriver. I also notice that everyone who suggests this specifies an extra set of points and not an extra Pertronix. Does that tell ya' something?

Yeah, it tells me that an old points plate is free and a spare Pertronix costs money.

Look, not to be rude, but to me points are simply a pain in the a$$, not to mention never being sure if your dwell is right or if your condenser is going bad.

[Goose1]

I really appreciate the help. I just found this forum and it's the first time my questions have been answered. It's hard to find anyone knowledgeable about the overdrive system other than just disconnecting a wire or something. Thank you all very much. Now as soon as this heat wave we're going through here in Northwest Indiana passes I'll crawl under this thing and start at the solenoid. I miss driving my hot rod !

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by Frank Miller

No diodes I am aware of but there is a resistor that goes in the circuit that shorts the ignition. I have run this in my 49 for a good 4000 miles now with no problem.

Frank , you are probably correct that it is a resistor. I just shipped a pertronix and seen the overdrive section wiring fix. I dont have another one here to look at. Resistors would make sense...

[Goose1]

Maybe I need to call pertronix again and hope someone else answers the phone. I called them right after it crapped out on me and the guy I talked to didn't know anything about the old Ford overdrive. First half of the conversation he thought I was talking about an automatic transmission . No help at all , youngsters ! What are ya gonna do.

[Frank Miller]

I just remembered this. I believe mine is wired so power goes straight to the Pertronix unit. Wire come from the unit to one side of the coil and the other side of the coil goes to ground. This is opposite of a conventional system where the points switch the grounded terminal. The incoming power is what is being switched on and off. I am not sure but you need to check for power going to the unit. Then when cranking the motor the coil terminal with the wire coming form the distributor should turn a test light on and off. Check for a resistor in the circuit grounding the coil from the power side. If it is missing then this may have fried the unit. I located mine at the junction on the solenoid so as to be out of sight.