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Old 01-06-2012, 02:40 PM   #1
Hivolt5.0
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Default T86 clutch and pressure plate

I need some recommendations on which clutch and pressure plate to use in my '57 Ranchero. It has a 312 with a T86/OD transmission. I was driving the Ranchero this morning with my kids and the clutch just quit working. The pressure plate is not disengaging the clutch. The clutch Z-bar is actuating the clutch fork, but nothing else is working. Fortunately I was pulling into the parking lot of a store when it happened. My wife was able to come get the kids and a buddy helped me trailer the Ranchero home.

thanks in advance for the help.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:55 PM   #2
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

A bit unusual that a clutch would fail without some kinda warning.

I use an 11 inch Borg style behind my Y Block.

Before you start dissassembling,check the "Z" bar.They have been known to tear the welds loose causing loss of enough motion to properly activate the clutch fork.

It will appear to move but may not be moving far enough due to a weld breaking and causing an angle change of the "Z" bar rod attachment ears.

Inspect the "Z" bar with a good light to see it has no damange.

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Old 01-06-2012, 02:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

Thanks Oldmics! I'll definitely inspect that. I sure hope that is the problem as it is something I can fix without spending money.
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:33 PM   #4
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

Hey Dave, I hate to hear that. If it turns out to be something in the bell housing, I hope it is a linkage or throw-out bearing. Pulling the transmission is a bummer though.
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:17 AM   #5
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

Maybe the fork pivot in the bellhousing broke
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:25 AM   #6
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

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Well, a buddy came over and helped me check out the transmission linkage. First I checked to see if the Z-bar had any issues. All of the brackets looked and felt solid. There was some movement where the Z-bar attaches to the motor though. Then, I tried adjusting rod that actuates the clutch fork. There is no inspection cover on the bell housing so I could watch the throw out bearing working on the clutch (engine off). Next, I decided to go ahead and remove the Z-bar just to make sure it was in good condition. As you can see from the picture it has been welded on before and they were holding strong.



The brass bushings on the motor side have seen better days though. They're the two on the left.



The two on the right are from the frame mount. After cleaning all the grease out I decided to swap the bushings (put the better ones on the motor side) just to see if that made any difference. Got it all installed and pumped a lot of grease through the Z-bar.

After we got it all together my buddy depressed the clutch and started the engine. Then he tried to shift the transmission into any gear and it would not budge. With the engine off, you can move the shifters into a gear so that tells me the transmission itself isn't jammed. I'm guessing their the pressure plate or throwout bearing has some issues??? Guess I'll be pulling the tranny to try and figure out what is going on.

Fun, fun.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

good luck ,partner.did you try making the clutch adjustment rod longer?
mike
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:31 AM   #8
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

its almost always the pressure plate in cases like this.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

I had a similar 56 V8 3 speed OD. that the same thing happened to. Turned out to be a spring in the center of the clutch disk that dislodged and jammed it up. New clutch disk fixed the problem. Paul Selfe.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

Thanks Darrell and Paul. I plan on pulling the transmission next week to see what is going on. As you all have experienced before, I just got the Ranchero running after having carb issues and now this happens. Such is life I suppose. I need to change out the synchros in the tranny anyway so I'll just try to get all of this stuff fixed so that I will not have to pull the trans again at a later date.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

Well, Paul wins the prize. He nailed the problem with the clutch spring. I pulled the transmission yesterday and as soon as I pulled the pressure plate I saw the spring lodged in places it shouldn't be. You can see how mangled the spring is in the picture.



The flywheel and pressure plate friction surfaces aren't too bad. I'm going to replace the pressure plate and throwout bearing while I have it apart.





The transmission is a dirt mess. I think every seal on it was leaking. haha







It looks like the rear main is leaking a bit too, or maybe the oil pan gasket or some combination of the two. Is there an "easy" way to replace these seals without pulling the motor???? This is my first experience with a Y block so I'm looking for some education.



When I took the starter off I notice two mounting ears had broken off. Is there a way to fix this??? I plan on taking it by the local starter repair shop and see what he says too.



I'm not sure who designed these starters but man what a pain to get out!!! I remember my Dad telling me about starters like this but this was my first experience with one. Not only is it still heavy but it is twice as long as a normal starter!!! Luckily my Daughter was outside so I hollered at her to turn the wheels so I could get some clearance from the tie rods.



I pulled the top cover off the transmission to inspect the gears. I was planning on having the transmission rebuilt in the near future anyway, I just didn't expect it to be this near in the future. I've had problems with transmission jumping out of first while accelerating and there is a bit of grinding shifting into second and third unless you shift it real slow. The teeth looked good but I saw a few spots on the 1st/Reverse gear where it was jumping out.



On a side note, what is the correct color for the transmission? Currently the bellhousing and tail shaft are red. I'm going to clean everything up and paint it before putting it back in the Ranchero and just want to paint everything correctly as per factory specs if possible.

thanks,
David
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

That's been fussed with before, I don't think trans' are usually painted.
You need a new starter, that gear looks wiped out anyway.
And a main seal ,outta' keep you off the streets and out of trouble for a while.
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Old 01-09-2012, 04:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

If you decide to change the rear seal, pay particular attention to reassembling the lower half. Clean everything you can see with a solvent or acetone. Clean-clean-clean. When the seal half is back in, use a dab of silicone on the top, on the threads of the bolts, and on the top of the rubber side pieces. Smear a dab more across the bottom where the pan gasket is, not a big gob, just a dab, but work in in the cracks with a clean finger. If you have a DA, clean the flywheel with some 220 grit.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

Take the flywheel to a good Automotive machine shop, and have them resurface your flywheel. This way you will know that it is flat and true.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:54 AM   #15
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapiron View Post
That's been fussed with before, I don't think trans' are usually painted.
You need a new starter, that gear looks wiped out anyway.
And a main seal ,outta' keep you off the streets and out of trouble for a while.
Scrapiron - I guess if there's some debate about the "correct" color of the tranny then I suppose I have some freedom to paint it the way I want! Yeah, I noticed the starter gear was looking pretty bad too. Fortunately all of the teeth on the flywheel are in good shape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Don View Post
If you decide to change the rear seal, pay particular attention to reassembling the lower half. Clean everything you can see with a solvent or acetone. Clean-clean-clean. When the seal half is back in, use a dab of silicone on the top, on the threads of the bolts, and on the top of the rubber side pieces. Smear a dab more across the bottom where the pan gasket is, not a big gob, just a dab, but work in in the cracks with a clean finger. If you have a DA, clean the flywheel with some 220 grit.
Ole Don - thank you for the advice on the rear main seal. Pretty much all of the gaskets on the motor are seaping so I'm trying to decide if I want to go ahead and just pull the motor and install new gaskets everywhere now or wait. As always, it's a "time vs money" issue so I've been pricing out gaskets and such. These old cars are domino affect aren't they?!? Oh well, it's still fun and I'm taking pride in the work I do on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdlmomowers View Post
Take the flywheel to a good Automotive machine shop, and have them resurface your flywheel. This way you will know that it is flat and true.
tdlmomowers - Yeah, I definitely want to take the flywheel to get resurfaced. I was told the local Car Quest will do it but I haven't called to find out yet.
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

Well, spent a little more time cleaning some of the transmission items tonight and decided to inspect the gears inside the transmission a little more closely. Wish I hadn't done that. You'll have to forgive me as I'm not sure what the correct names for all of the pieces in the transmission are. Anyway, the shaft in the bottom of the transmission, where the 1st gear slides into has several chipped teeth. The reverse gear on the "side" of the transmission also has some chipped teeth. So now what?????



Not wanting to have a completely useless evening I decided to "shower some attention" on the transmission crossmember. Man it was covered in at least 1/8 of crude. Got all that off and noticed the welds holding the "tube" to the "end caps" weren't looking too good so I decided to reweld them. I still need to clean up some of the welding slag but I'm happy with the results. I'll wire wheel the whole thing, prime and paint it.



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Old 01-11-2012, 12:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

Does anyone know if the gear set from a non-overdrive T86 will fit into an R10 overdrive T86?
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

No, but I have an unused gasket and seal kit with a new sychro assembly.
Email me at [email protected]
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

Sent you an email Ole Don.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: T86 clutch and pressure plate

since I'm waiting for some parts and trying to save up some funds for other parts I decided to take some time and clean up some of the items. I cleaned and painted the emergency brake equalizer bracket, clutch fork, drive shaft yoke and the bell housing. What do you think??

Before:


During:


After:




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