The Ford Barn

Doctor's Ford · 01-11-2015, 12:21 PM

Few months ago I posted about a problem with my 33 front crossmember which has a thick metal plate welded on top of it to fix a previous crack. I have found a perfect crossmember to replace it and need some advice to remove the old one. The engine is out to fix a major oil leak and now is the moment to work on the crossmember. I removed all the bolts attaching the cross member to the frame but can not slide it out because is stopped by the front spring (see photo). Any suggestions how to get it out? Is it safe to jack both front ends of the frame all the way up until the frame is higher than the top of the spring to give some clearence to slide the crossmember out? Or any other tricks you may suggest? I certainly would prefer not to remove the spring. Thanks for any advice you can provide. Manuel

V8COOPMAN · 01-11-2015, 12:41 PM

I would place your floor jack under the center of your front axle. Jack the axle/spring assembly back up into the crossmember, and continue jacking until the crossmember is about three inches higher than it is now. At that time, place two appropriate jack stands under the two frame rails BEHIND the crossmember. Then, lower the floor jack and the axle/spring assembly back down. You should now have the clearance you need to slide the crossmember out the front. Be careful! DD

gearhead1952 · 01-11-2015, 12:44 PM

Can remove the brake hoses then jack up the frame high enough to clear spring. Probably have to go rearward with it due to the taper of the frame it won't go forward and out.

funrunr · 01-11-2015, 12:48 PM

It may be ok to jack up for just enough room. Make sure you watch the pitman arm on the steering geerbox to confirm no damage will occur to the draglink. Disconnect spring while on the ground, you might need to disconnect shocks too. Raise the frame slowly watching for any possible mishaps. Also watch or disconnect the cup on the wishbone, as they only alow so much movement up and down. It could tear the metal from all the weight. Other ways definitely possible, this is the method I used when removing front suspensions. Normally I disconnect everything though. I realize you are aiming to remove as little as possible.

funrunr · 01-11-2015, 12:51 PM

Just thought of this, you should probably clamp or tack weld a piece metal aacross the top of frame to insure no movement happens. Cheap easy insurance!

deuce lover · 01-11-2015, 12:54 PM

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If you are not planning to save the old cross member just cut it in 1/2 and it should come out easily.Installing the replacement is the other issue.

bobH · 01-11-2015, 01:00 PM

I'd follow the suggestion in post 2, but get that front end completely out of the way. And, look at that spring pack. It's way too big (stiff). I'd remove many of those leaves, and while doing that, clean the leaves, and do whatever your choice is to make them 'work'. Your 4 cyl engine, and your personal rear is going to feel like it's riding on cement, the way that current spring pack is.
As for the crossmember, beat it out any way you can. Maybe help by spreading the rails. Use a porta power, or even an old bumper jack. It'll come out, as long as you have all the rivets (or bolts?) out.

Mart · 01-11-2015, 01:21 PM

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the crossmember needs to be knocked back to remove, rather than to the front. You need to make sure any bolts or fittings rearwards of the crossmember for quite a few inches are out of the way. You would do better to completely remove the front axle and get it right out of the way.

Mart.

DavidG · 01-11-2015, 01:52 PM

Manuel,

It likely will come out much easier if you first remove the gussets on either side of the front of the cross member. You'll likely be reusing them so then have to be detached at some point and doing first will help reduce the number of points of friction. Even so, you likely will have to remove the cross member toward the rear, not forward because of the narrowing of the frame side rails forward of the cross member (as suggested above).

The advice above about reducing the number of spring leaves should also be followed. The original had 12 leaves and any more than 12 will lead to an excessively harsh ride.

bobH · 01-11-2015, 02:17 PM

Also note that the crossmember, as it is, has grown in length, because it has been beat upward. That is forcing it tighter against the rails, compared to stock original. You can measure the frame width now, and see that it has spread. So, forcing it to spread a little more, or cutting the crossmember out as duece lover said, is probably what will work. Don't worry about cutting the crossmember, a talented fabricator that would restore it to as-new, would cut it apart anyway.
(Stock frame dimensions can be found at Wescott's web site.)
Your rails will need to be brought back in, slightly, assuming you are restoring the frame to stock.

V8COOPMAN · 01-11-2015, 02:25 PM

Those frame rails will easily flex outboard with some strategically and reasonably-applied force before reaching their "yield" point. DD

V12Bill · 01-11-2015, 03:08 PM

No one has mentioned this yet, so I will jump in here. When replacing the new cross member , use rivets, not bolts. Rivets hold tighter because they expand as they are peened over. Nuts and bolts have a tendency to come loose, welding does not allow flexing.

Doctor's Ford · 01-11-2015, 03:29 PM

OK, very helpful tips. Now, let me see if I can organize the steps to follow, combining all your timely suggestions.

1) Remove one or both gusetts/radiator support in the front of the crossmember.
2) Disconnect the cup of the wishbone and the steering link. I already disconnected the shocks.
3) Then jack the car up slowly as described by V8coopman.
4) Slide the cross member backwards until free. The problem with the final step is that it seems there is no enough room for the crossmember to be out of the rail unless it is pushed way back almost to where the firewall is. This is not possible unless the entire steering column/gearbox is removed, which is too much for me.

bobH and V8coopman talked about spreading out the rails by applying some force. Is that not going to damage the body bolted to the rails? And I don't have special big tools for that type of job. I have a body shop/metal guy coming to work with me on this project this week and will follow some of these ideas.

Now I just wonder how difficult will be to put the new crossmember afterwards and whether is wise to do the whole thing!

Lastly, I counted 12 leaves on the front spring, which is stock. Is that still too many and for a more comfortable ride do I remove say 2 of them?

Manuel

JSeery · 01-11-2015, 04:01 PM

Springs: A lot of people remove spring leaves until they like the ride. It is best to remove every other one vs two next to each other. If it was me, I would take out more than two, but it is an individual preference thing. The short ones are stiffer than the long ones. You also might have to replace the thickness of the spring with a spacer on the top to the springs to retain the proper height.

Crossmember: I would use a porta-power to spread the frame. Might be some type of mechanical type of spreader. A body man should have access to something to spread the frame rails. You could cut the existing one out, but you still need to get the new one in. The body bolts are where the where the x-member attaches to the outside frame rails so it should not flex as much as the frame rails forwards.

Mart · 01-11-2015, 04:13 PM

Manuel, due to the taper in the frame you can sort of move it backwards but only as far as it needs to go before you can rotate it far enough to drop out. This is a big job. the whole front end needs to be stripped down. (Inner fenders need to be out of the way).

I should say I have not removed a 33/34 crossmember but have done 32 and 40 type.

Mart.

01-11-2015, 12:41 PM	#2
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,106	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? I would place your floor jack under the center of your front axle. Jack the axle/spring assembly back up into the crossmember, and continue jacking until the crossmember is about three inches higher than it is now. At that time, place two appropriate jack stands under the two frame rails BEHIND the crossmember. Then, lower the floor jack and the axle/spring assembly back down. You should now have the clearance you need to slide the crossmember out the front. Be careful! DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

01-11-2015, 12:44 PM	#3
gearhead1952 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Julesburg, Colorado Posts: 714	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? Can remove the brake hoses then jack up the frame high enough to clear spring. Probably have to go rearward with it due to the taper of the frame it won't go forward and out.

01-11-2015, 12:48 PM	#4
funrunr Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Belleville,MI Posts: 1,427	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? It may be ok to jack up for just enough room. Make sure you watch the pitman arm on the steering geerbox to confirm no damage will occur to the draglink. Disconnect spring while on the ground, you might need to disconnect shocks too. Raise the frame slowly watching for any possible mishaps. Also watch or disconnect the cup on the wishbone, as they only alow so much movement up and down. It could tear the metal from all the weight. Other ways definitely possible, this is the method I used when removing front suspensions. Normally I disconnect everything though. I realize you are aiming to remove as little as possible. __________________ Thank God this is only a hobby!

01-11-2015, 12:51 PM	#5
funrunr Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Belleville,MI Posts: 1,427	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? Just thought of this, you should probably clamp or tack weld a piece metal aacross the top of frame to insure no movement happens. Cheap easy insurance! __________________ Thank God this is only a hobby!

01-11-2015, 12:54 PM	#6
deuce lover Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern France Posts: 5,301	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) If you are not planning to save the old cross member just cut it in 1/2 and it should come out easily.Installing the replacement is the other issue.

01-11-2015, 01:00 PM	#7
bobH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: so cal, placerville, vegas Posts: 1,394	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? I'd follow the suggestion in post 2, but get that front end completely out of the way. And, look at that spring pack. It's way too big (stiff). I'd remove many of those leaves, and while doing that, clean the leaves, and do whatever your choice is to make them 'work'. Your 4 cyl engine, and your personal rear is going to feel like it's riding on cement, the way that current spring pack is. As for the crossmember, beat it out any way you can. Maybe help by spreading the rails. Use a porta power, or even an old bumper jack. It'll come out, as long as you have all the rivets (or bolts?) out.

01-11-2015, 01:21 PM	#8
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,744	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? I'm not 100% sure, but I think the crossmember needs to be knocked back to remove, rather than to the front. You need to make sure any bolts or fittings rearwards of the crossmember for quite a few inches are out of the way. You would do better to completely remove the front axle and get it right out of the way. Mart.

01-11-2015, 01:52 PM	#9
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,094	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? Manuel, It likely will come out much easier if you first remove the gussets on either side of the front of the cross member. You'll likely be reusing them so then have to be detached at some point and doing first will help reduce the number of points of friction. Even so, you likely will have to remove the cross member toward the rear, not forward because of the narrowing of the frame side rails forward of the cross member (as suggested above). The advice above about reducing the number of spring leaves should also be followed. The original had 12 leaves and any more than 12 will lead to an excessively harsh ride.

01-11-2015, 02:17 PM	#10
bobH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: so cal, placerville, vegas Posts: 1,394	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? Also note that the crossmember, as it is, has grown in length, because it has been beat upward. That is forcing it tighter against the rails, compared to stock original. You can measure the frame width now, and see that it has spread. So, forcing it to spread a little more, or cutting the crossmember out as duece lover said, is probably what will work. Don't worry about cutting the crossmember, a talented fabricator that would restore it to as-new, would cut it apart anyway. (Stock frame dimensions can be found at Wescott's web site.) Your rails will need to be brought back in, slightly, assuming you are restoring the frame to stock.

01-11-2015, 02:25 PM	#11
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,106	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? Those frame rails will easily flex outboard with some strategically and reasonably-applied force before reaching their "yield" point. DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

01-11-2015, 03:08 PM	#12
V12Bill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mt. Holly,NJ Posts: 1,822	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? No one has mentioned this yet, so I will jump in here. When replacing the new cross member , use rivets, not bolts. Rivets hold tighter because they expand as they are peened over. Nuts and bolts have a tendency to come loose, welding does not allow flexing.

01-11-2015, 03:29 PM	#13
Doctor's Ford Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: South Dakota Posts: 405	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? OK, very helpful tips. Now, let me see if I can organize the steps to follow, combining all your timely suggestions. 1) Remove one or both gusetts/radiator support in the front of the crossmember. 2) Disconnect the cup of the wishbone and the steering link. I already disconnected the shocks. 3) Then jack the car up slowly as described by V8coopman. 4) Slide the cross member backwards until free. The problem with the final step is that it seems there is no enough room for the crossmember to be out of the rail unless it is pushed way back almost to where the firewall is. This is not possible unless the entire steering column/gearbox is removed, which is too much for me. bobH and V8coopman talked about spreading out the rails by applying some force. Is that not going to damage the body bolted to the rails? And I don't have special big tools for that type of job. I have a body shop/metal guy coming to work with me on this project this week and will follow some of these ideas. Now I just wonder how difficult will be to put the new crossmember afterwards and whether is wise to do the whole thing! Lastly, I counted 12 leaves on the front spring, which is stock. Is that still too many and for a more comfortable ride do I remove say 2 of them? Manuel

01-11-2015, 04:01 PM	#14
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? Springs: A lot of people remove spring leaves until they like the ride. It is best to remove every other one vs two next to each other. If it was me, I would take out more than two, but it is an individual preference thing. The short ones are stiffer than the long ones. You also might have to replace the thickness of the spring with a spacer on the top to the springs to retain the proper height. Crossmember: I would use a porta-power to spread the frame. Might be some type of mechanical type of spreader. A body man should have access to something to spread the frame rails. You could cut the existing one out, but you still need to get the new one in. The body bolts are where the where the x-member attaches to the outside frame rails so it should not flex as much as the frame rails forwards.

01-11-2015, 04:13 PM	#15
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,744	Re: How to remove a 33 front crossmember? Manuel, due to the taper in the frame you can sort of move it backwards but only as far as it needs to go before you can rotate it far enough to drop out. This is a big job. the whole front end needs to be stripped down. (Inner fenders need to be out of the way). I should say I have not removed a 33/34 crossmember but have done 32 and 40 type. Mart.