Dead Battery - why?

[Vic in E-TN]

Yesterday I tried to start my Tudor. New engine & trans. It started and ran well for 3 days. I have not hooked up anything except the alternator and ignition circuit. When I tried to start it there was nothing. I hooked up my battery charger for a few hours. The starter turned about 2 turns. Upon further checking there was only 2 volts across the terminals. The battery was almost 7 years old and was OK before. I pulled it and installed a new one. It turned over fine and would have run except I had a phone call.

My question is - has anyone experienced the sudden death of a battery like this? If you have, what was the cause?

Vic

[P.S.]

A 7 year old battery died? Umm, not trying to sound flippant or anything, that's normal.

Batteries are made out of materials that age poorly. Two of them are acid and ferrous metals. Anything over 5 years is great!!

I replace batteries in the work vehicles every 2 years, and personal vehicles every 3 whether they need it or not (they do). Then recycle the old ones.

[ford3]

ive had that happen, drove to wal mart, came out about an hr later and car wouldnt start, dead battery, it was 4 or 5 yrs old, alt type of alt are you using? externily reg internal, one wire?

[Vic in E-TN]

One wire alternator. I have had lots of batteries die - slowly. They won't hold a charge for long. This one just died like it had a "heart attack".
Vic

[Tom Wesenberg]

Yep, in the 70's I drove my 52 Studebaker to my cousin's house and it was normal as could be. When I went to leave an hour later the battery was dead. Twice I've had them die with no warning. As mentioned, once they are 7 years old they are on borrowed time.

[P.S.]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Whenever I have a battery die, it just "has a heart attack" like you described.

The battery that was in my Model A died about 4 months after I bought it. Who knows how long it had been in the car, but didn't look very old. Started and ran fine all day, then went to start it about an hour later and nothing. Luckily, there was just enough in it (maybe 2 volts) that I was able to crank start the car and get it home. It wouldn't start at all after that. A new Optima fixed that!

I disagree with Tom slightly. Once they hit 5 years old, they are most certainly on borrowed time!

[PeteVS]

My experience is that they go suddenly. Stopped at the bank on the way home, came out and the battery's dead. (Fortunately, I only conducted legal business in the bank and I wasn't in a hurry.)

[Mitch//pa]

Five years is the deadline for me also.

[Tom Wesenberg]

You guys are right, 5 years is about the time limit on modern 12 volt batteries.

The old 6 volts usually have lasted 7 years or more for me, so I consider anything over 7 years an extra bonus for the 6 volt batteries. I don't know how long they are lasting nowdays because I'm going on 9 years since I bought my 6 volt from the metal recycling yard.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

The only battery I ever had go more than 5-7 years was a Sears Diehard. I stopped to pick up something on my way home. Engine started fine when I left work, totally dead 10 minutes later.

[Willie Krash]

I'm with Tom. Old 6v batteries lasted forever. OTOH newer batteries are like everything these days. Short lived. On modern cars with gear reduction starter batteries don't work as hard and should last longer. I do agree the old Diehard was a great battery. Who really is left making batteries? Just a few I'd guess, one or two?

[H. L. Chauvin]

Appears years ago batteries used to get TB or something & die very slowly.

We rarely hear of TB today -- high chlorestoral & drop instantly with heart disease.

Might have something to do with the new electrons in the air resulting from global warming, or maybe large soda drinks, or maybe a new battery condition like "I have fallen & can't get up" syndrone we hear in the news today.

I'm still trying to get used to all of these new causes of failure.

[Christoph]

i vote for the "large soda drinks"

[ford3]

one wire altenators will not completly shut down some times, the circuit stays open even when you turn off the ignition key, seeing there is still juice flowing thru the alt circuit it will drain the battery over nite, have had that happen twice, replaced the one wire alt with a 3 wire chevy alt, when the key is off no juice going to alt to excite the field coils, that is a know problem with 12 v one wires

[steve s]

The new (12V) maintenance free batteries are notorious for sudden death after ~6 years. Our 2003 Buick had to be towed. Couldn't start with jumper cables connected to another running car. The tow truck couldn't get it started with his heavy duty rig, even after letting it "charge" for 20 minutes. The dealer said they should be replaced preemptively at 6 years, but they don't waste their breath trying to convince anyone of that.

[whirnot]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Appears years ago batteries used to get TB or something & die very slowly.

We rarely hear of TB today -- high chlorestoral & drop instantly with heart disease.

Might have something to do with the new electrons in the air resulting from global warming, or maybe large soda drinks, or maybe a new battery condition like "I have fallen & can't get up" syndrone we hear in the news today.

I'm still trying to get used to all of these new causes of failure.

Too many Big Macs!

[Hicktick]

Well in all my years I will say that I saw more bad batteries when the Temp. changed .

When it first gets cold and again when it first turns hot , kills a battery .

I don't know why it just happens that way .

[MikeK]

I think the high plate density (tight plate spacing) of modern batteries is the sudden death culprit. As batteries dis- and re- charge many times the plate surfaces become uneven and they grow little projections called dendrites. On an old design battery the plate separators were so thick and loose that the dendrites never got big enough to short out the opposing plates and when they did form, the large slightly loose plate separators wore them away before they became a problem.

Old design batteries died slowly by losing capacity as the available plate surfaces accumulated irreversible deposits. Newer plate design and proprietary modern electrolyte additives which discourage dendrites often make today's lead-acid batteries maintain 75% of their rating well into the fourth or fifth year. The additives that permitted the high-density design are spent at this point. Then the dendrite 'heart attack' occurs.

FWIW, battery dendrite formation is not limited to lead-acid types. Ni-cad and LiPo batteries suffer this horror, too. The Hi-tech 3.7V Organic lithium cells used in the Boeing 787's that were all grounded because of two battery disasters were ultimately found to have failed because of dendrite growth causing a short.

The best way to curb dendrite growth on a car battery is to occasionally subject it to an extremely high forced charge rate. On an AGM car battery that would be 50-100 amps into the battery for 10 minutes or so. An alternator with a voltage regulator will never deliver that amperage to the battery, even if it very discharged. How does that work? The dendrites grow right through the porous plate separators, forming extremely fine threads of metal that get so close to the plates that they self discharge. Applying a very high re-charge current 'blows' those dendrites like tiny fuses subjected to too much amperage.

[Vic in E-TN]

MikeK:
Very interesting explanation. I like it. I have a Sears roll around starter machine that I rarely use. This should do it. I will experiment on the dead 6 volt battery. Will use old clothes and safety glasses. The starter machine has a high amp 6 volt boost setting.
Vic

[MikeK]

Vic, I love Frankenstein experiments! Trying to resurrect the dead. Thumbs up on the old clothes and safety glasses.