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01-31-2012, 09:49 PM | #1 |
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Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
Ok I am trying to determine if there is an issue or not with these new style pressure plates. The new early Ford pressure plates with the non adjustable fingers have been on the market for a while now, I recently had a customer come in with an issue with a stiff clutch and this is what he discovered.
It appears that as the clutch is depressed and as the fingers rotate inward on the throw out bearing the length of the arm is contacting the end of the throw out collar and rubbing on it. Luckily the throw out collar is cast so it wears easily but it appears that there is an issue. When compared to an original adjustable arm pressure plate there is no interference and every thing is fine. The problem was corrected by trimming down the collar snout but this is aha-ok method. 1st picture L-R, is of worn hub snout and cast finger pressure plate, second picture is of original part index and third picture is back yard alteration. Note: The nuts under the throw out arms simulate the pressure plate being depressed. Now my question is are there any other people who have just replaced their pressure plate with the cast finger design and having an issue with a stiff operating or noise when depressing the clutch with the engine running or is this an isolated problem?
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01-31-2012, 11:21 PM | #2 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
Dick: Not to muddy the waters here, but why are the adjustable arms no longer avail?? Cost??
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02-01-2012, 03:18 AM | #3 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
Dick,
Not with the cast fingers but same problem installing a diaphragm pressure plate. There is a current thread by Joe Way over on the Model A side, https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1865, describing the issue with the diaphragm design. The diaphragm PP was not intended specifically for our application and problems can be expected ... however, if the cast finger PP was designed as a flathead replacement, there are obviously spec problems. Who is manufacturing these?
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02-01-2012, 07:17 AM | #4 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
I just replaced a pressure plate that had the forged fingers, and no counterweights. The pressure plate, clutch and throwout were new. The fingers of the PP hit the hub of the throwout and shavings were all over the flywheel, as in your photo Dick. The throwout would wobble on the hub, due to the damage. I believe the PP was Ford tractor. The passenger car needs the counterweights. At rest there is about 650# of pressure on the clutch, with the counterweights at RPM that increases to triple the original value, without the weights no increase. Plus the spacing of the fingers causing damage.
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02-01-2012, 07:41 AM | #5 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
I can't address Dick's questions directly so this may be a bit off topic. My suggestion to anyone needing a clutch or pressure plate would be to get them from Fort Wayne Clutch. You can buy new or rebuilt directly from them or you can send them your original cores for rebuild. Quality work and products...plus "Made in the U.S.A."
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02-01-2012, 08:03 AM | #6 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
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02-01-2012, 09:20 AM | #7 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
Thanks for posting responses as I'd like to keep this to the top for a couple days for a wider sampling but please keep it to the issue no personal politics or sales pitches. DS
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02-01-2012, 09:46 AM | #8 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
I do not know if this has anything to do with this topic but I am having problem with clutch "seems" to expand as engine gets hotter. Trans shifts fine when cold but as engine gets up to temp I cannot get the clutch to disengage properly and gear crashing results when stopped and trying to get into first gear. I suspect an aftermarket clutch and pp from previous owner but I am not versed on these things so well. Are these items being discussed aftermarket or original being used in different applications.
thanks frederic |
02-01-2012, 09:49 AM | #9 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
Those fingers just flat look too long. It's like they were made for an 8BA type or other with a smaller input shaft diameter. There were different lengths for different applications. Perhaps they were put in by mistake by the manufacturer. I wonder who the manufacturer is?
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02-01-2012, 12:47 PM | #10 | |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
Quote:
This is not meant to be a political statement or any type of sales pitch ad. It is a fact that the more cheap off shore after market parts you use on these old cars the more likelihood of having problems like your customer is now having with his c&pp....bottom line is make sure you buy good replacement parts to begin with. Junk is junk anyway you look at this situation. PS...as others have asked...who was the manufacturer of this pp and what was the country of origin?? Curious minds would like to know that tidbit as well.
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02-03-2012, 10:38 PM | #11 | |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
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02-04-2012, 02:39 PM | #12 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
Dick the real question here is why are you as a highly respected parts supplier pushing these inferior Chinese parts? No matter what you do to these pressure plates fingers they are still junk!!! Chinese engineer Hong Dong Flu, you don't need adjustable fingers and counterweights those dumb Americans will buy anything. Adjustable fingers and counterweights were engineered as part of a design package that has been proven since the beginning.
Because of a time constraint, I bought one of these Chinese wonders, it was installed in the car, but the linkage would not adjust far enough to make it work. The thro-out bearing fell off the end of the transmission snout. Pulled the engine, heated and bend the fingers then shorten the length of the fingers. Put engine back in and adjusted the clutch. Two days later clutch starts to slip. Went to the barn and dug out a tried and true designed pressure plate and sent it to Fort Wayne Clutch and it came back like new, end of problem. |
02-04-2012, 03:34 PM | #13 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
Hey Guys
Don't give Dick a hard time over the parts. It seems like everything you buy today, from kitchen utensils to car parts etc. is from China. Walk thru Loewes/Walmart and pay attention to where stuff is made it will give you a knot in your stomach. Buy American where you can EVEN if you pay more. OK back to car stuff......I don't know anything about pressure plates ........can't help here.
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02-04-2012, 04:12 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
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02-04-2012, 04:23 PM | #15 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
Which of the 3 styles of V8 clutch PP's are we talking about? Likely I have afew counterweightd cores I can sell.
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02-04-2012, 04:28 PM | #16 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
Whoa there Chisel don't shoot the messenger, I'm not pushing these parts on anyone. I am trying to determine if there is an issue. What gets me is that the first thing that comes up is that you bust me for promoting the product, I know its an import part, I sell an original unit but it costs more. Product price US vs import is a whole new argument and not really the topic I'm working on.
I'm not the importer nor have even determined who is as well as the manufacturer yet. I'm trying to solve an issue that came up with some detective work and and you are sort of accusing me of being part of the problem and I don't appreciate it. My question to you Chisel, if you had a problem did you take it to the vendor you bought the pressure plate from and did they help you or did you just bitch that it was junk while the real reason behind the part purchase was a cheaper price. I cannot trouble shoot your issue as I dont know the installation particulars but bending two out of three fingers something is wrong. Anyway this post was to gather information as well as point out some issues to followers, its not intended to be this never ending whine about import products. If you are going to whine don't respond. All I want to do is find out if this issue is still going on. If it's a an isolated incident then I have to examine how the customer used or installed the part. If it is an on going problem then the consumer needs to know and that is what I am doing. Again if you have had any issue similar to the post question please take time and respond. Thanks DS
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02-04-2012, 04:42 PM | #17 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
If adjuster screws are in short supply as ken ct has said you might consider Surge Friction in South Holland,IL. Long time clutch builder, well versed in antiques, late models, industrial, trucks, and racing applications.
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02-04-2012, 04:45 PM | #18 | |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
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02-04-2012, 06:17 PM | #19 |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
Bob, I do not know if FWC can supply a 'Made in the USA' throw out bearing. I didn't think to ask the last time I talked to them since I already have a new TOB for the rebuilt c&pp that will be going in my '35 5W Coupe. You could call them @ 1-260-4'84-8505 or FAX them @ 1-260-484-8605. If I get time on Monday I will call them on that. Others here would probably like to know as well. I believe i read a post here that said either Mac VanPelt or Charlie, ny had 'made in the USA' TOB's. Not sure that is still true though.
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02-04-2012, 07:26 PM | #20 | |
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Re: Inquiring minds want to know-Throw out/clutch finger issue
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