Stainless Valves

[wiretwister]

Is there any good reason to put stainless valves in the ex-valve in a FH ?
Thanks, bill

[JWL]

No, and not in the intake, either.

[Terry,OH]

the original Ford exhaust valves were stainless and the intakes steel. I use stainless on both, it doesn't prevent rust but does hold it back. I am thinking of sticking valves over time.

[Ralph Moore]

Most aftermarket catalogs advertise stainless only. Where do you get plain steel valves from?

[rotorwrench]

I doubt seriously that FoMoCo ever used an all stainless exhaust valve in production for any flathead engine. Too many galling problems on the stems when using steel or iron guides. They did use Stelite seats though up until 1952 or 53.

I work on aircraft engines and over the years they tried CRES exhaust valves but had to use soft bronze/brass guides. This led to more wear problems than you could account for. On the engines I specialize in, they were changed back to sodium filled steel valves with Ni-resist guides (nitrided steel) and as long as the clearances start out in the correct specification, the only thing to worry about is carbon build up that can cause sticking.

kerby

[Krylon32]

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Used stainless intakes and exhaust on the flatheads I have built. That's all my suppliers have?

[V8 Bob]

Originally Posted by wiretwister

Is there any good reason to put stainless valves in the ex-valve in a FH ?
Thanks, bill

If new valves are needed, stainless undercut one-piece valves with chrome stems from Manley are a high quality value for any engine, including flatheads, vs OE two-piece stock valves. IMO.

[Charlie ny]

Wire,
Most early Ford Script exhaust were stainless....I'm referring to the
mushroom tip variety. Of those valves a good percentage were stainless
heads with steel stems. Prior to using the 8ba valve train and Chevy
stainless valves I always checked valves with a magnet prior to use. I'm
thinking after JWL's comment that maybe my preference for SS was an
emotional decision.
What ever valve you use be absolutely sure it has a good margin
to disapate heat.
Charlie ny

[GOSFAST]

The "best" setup is bronze-lined guides, all stainless valves, and some newer "Viton" valve stem seals! (In the early days we used the "rubber/teflon" seals instead of the "Viton's)

Have been selling these Flatties for years using this platform!!

Not a single issue to date.

(Add) We also install hardened seat-inserts as needed!! A minumum on the exhaust's at least!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. From the day 30 years ago when we started using this "package", we haven't encountered a single "stuck" valve, and this includes some units sitting long dormant times through the bad weather.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by GOSFAST

The "best" setup is bronze-lined guides, all stainless valves, and some newer "Viton" valve stem seals! (In the early days we used the "rubber/teflon" seals instead of the "Viton's)

Have been selling these Flatties for years using this platform!!

Not a single issue to date.

(Add) We also install hardened seat-inserts as needed!! A minumum on the exhaust's at least!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. From the day 30 years ago when we started using this "package", we haven't encountered a single "stuck" valve, and this includes some units sitting long dormant times through the bad weather.

Gary
I have done the same as you for years liners,and seals on both int.and exh.and have never had a comeback. This combination works in many engines flatheads are just another engine not a complicated valve train at all.I have used this combo in other industrial flatheads continental fork lift gas and propane grey marine Hercules marine Chrysler industrial Onan and more..Seems to be a proven combination plus you can tighten the stem clearances somewhat also,which is a bonus.
Guys check valves with a magnet and some of you will be surprised at the stainless out there as well as two piece valves as only a portion of the valve is magnetic. Just my 2¢

Ronnie

[Ol' Ron]

The factory valve is a 2 piece friction welded together to provide a valve with a stainless head ans a steel stem. They must have had a reason. Going to a bronz liner is expensive and un necessary id you use a chrome stem on the SS valves. I use a knurelled guide to provide better lubrication also a tighter fit. Been doing this for at least 20 years. Just proves one thing, The Flathead is a great engine>

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

The factory valve is a 2 piece friction welded together to provide a valve with a stainless head ans a steel stem. They must have had a reason. Going to a bronz liner is expensive and un necessary id you use a chrome stem on the SS valves. I use a knurelled guide to provide better lubrication also a tighter fit. Been doing this for at least 20 years. Just proves one thing, The Flathead is a great engine>

It certainly is.If it ain't broke don't fix it.All is well.

Ronnie

[JWL]

It looks like only "rotorwrench" understands that the stock valves are not stainless steel and are completely adequate for our Flatheads. There are dozens of high temperature alloys which are not magnetic.

[Ronnie]

No one said that other valve train styles don't work. Stainless is an acceptable component use in engine valve trains.

It gets a good blessing here.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=paey...page&q&f=false

Ronnie

[JWL]

The question was whether or not there is a GOOD reason to install stainless exhaust valves in the Flathead. The answer is no. The stock Ford valves are completely acceptable.

[wiretwister]

Thanks a bunch.
Will use the originals that are good and replace the few that are marginal.
Love the experience and knowledge on this site. Hope the Ford Barn goes on forever.
God knows our kids will need somewhere to go if they want to play with what they own when I die.

[Ronnie]

Here is some good info on how long stainless and other materials have been used in exhaust and intake valves.This will help with knowing the material makeup of valves.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...t_engines.aspx

Ronnie

[GOSFAST]

Just a suggestion here, we do and we've done numerous "Flatties" through the years.

We've watched the available fuel at the pumps all but deteriorate along the way for the most part!!

The later/newer engines have all the incorporated upgrades along the way to be compatible with the present day fuels!

Not all of my Flathead customers go on very long cruises at sustained highway speeds (60/70 MPH), but a few do, and it's for this reason alone when we layout a program with any customer we try to incorporate all the components that allow this highway driving without causing ANY premature damage or component failure!

If you are contemplating a "decent" build on your unit it pays to "update" it at this time. It's not all that difficult.

Just a few items that we recommend are the hardened exhaust seats (the intake valves/seats as a rule aren't a problem due to the lower temps they operate at), the "full" stainless valves with hardened "tips" (the Austenitic valves are fine to use and are probably what was original), and the one single item we feel most important today, some high-grade "Moly" rings.

If you follow these items you will have a "bullet-proof" build with respect to longevity! I have a few of these "Flatties" with over 10 years running and not a single issue. Have one in a nostalgia stock car upstate NY running for years now, again, not a single issue at sustained track speeds!!

(Add) I was involved in a very recent build on a 292" that is scheduled to be "in the magazines" in the near future. I can't give too many details here, but it was a "fantastic" build that came off the dyno with 150+ HP and 250+ Torque, AND it would run at 80 MPH all day long (Overdriven of course)! It was a real good build! Some up here know the owner for sure!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I place all this here due to fact that the fuel is STILL getting worse with the higher percentage of Ethanol being blended in the mix! Remember, years ago, the lead content was extremely high, now it's all the "additives" in play!! Do the build one time, and do it right, you'll enjoy it more!!

[JWL]

For those who do not realize the facts----there was ZERO lead in the old fuels the original Flathead valves were designed to handle.

[Ronnie]

What we all know is that today's fuel is very harsh and there have been improvements to engine components to accommodate this.To believe that today replacement internal engine components are done to old standards would be a myth.There have been changes due to today's requirements.Using current technology in manufacturing is quite acceptable.If one chooses to use what they have available is a personal choice.To move forward in the parts world is also a personal choice.
2¢more.

[flatjack9]

As JWL has stated, the fuels and lubricants used today are head and shoulders above anything that was available in the flathead era. As much as people bang on todays fuel, if we went back to the old days, there would be some real howling.

[Ol' Ron]

When Using the L-100 cam, or any cam with a net lift over .350. I like to use SBC OEM valves. These are a 2 piece valve of Hi quality and are .060" longer than the stock Ford valve. This allows the adjustable lifter to be much shorter and less prone to come loose. Unfortunately the bottom of the valve is poorly shaped for a Flathead and I under cut this at a 20 deg angle with a 3/4 round carbide. Probably not necessary for a street engine.

[JWL]

Again, the original question was: "is there any good reason to use stainless valves", in our Flatheads. The answer is no. This question has nothing to do with whether or not government engineers at NASA can develope better materials than the Ford engineers of 60 or 70 years past. The question has nothing to do with how much money can be spent on personal preference modifications. So, what are we trying to do here? Answer the original question or prove that there are ways to spend more money doing unnecessary modifications? Nearly any component in ANY modern or antique engine could be replaced with something stronger, lighter, tougher, with higher cycle life. But, is there any "good" reason to do that? Thousands, perhaps millions of Flathead engines have operated for millions of trouble-free miles with the stock Ford valves and guides.

[Ronnie]

The question has been answered.
The acceptance is with the owner,be it his decision as to what parts he desires.That would be the "good reason" in their mind. Feel free to make your own choices on this "painless" or was that "stainless" valve issue.