Hard time starting with electric starter, easy with crank

[daltonathomas94]

Hey Barn,
I need a super sleuth on this one,
I keep my 59ab driven 37 pickup plugged in over night on a trickle to compensate for a weak generator..... (I will deal with that at a later time..... said 5 years ago). When I get ready to start, I will unplug, let it sit for a bit and go to start on half choke, no throttle lest I flood the thing. It cranks quickly without struggle, but does not want to start. At this point, I break out the starter crank, walk over to the front and after two to three pulls, SHE LIVES!!! Albeit with a bounding idle I need to tickle the throttle to keep going.

So at this point I have been using the starter to move the oil around and prime the carb with the expectation that I will hand crank after about three sets of five second crank no start.

Does anyone have reasoning that can point me in a diagnostic direction?

Other known issues;
-No comp. on Cyl7, possible stuck open valves
-Require valve lapping and adjustment
-Bad generator used as a place holder for a fan

And this is a daily driver so sitting too long shouldn't be an issue.

[ford38v8]

You’re not getting enough voltage to the coil while cranking. For this, check resistance drop at each connection from battery to coil. The only significant voltage drop should be the resistor under the dash. Check condition of battery cables and starter cable, and also in those cables, confirm that you have 6 v cables not 12v cables, and importantly, the connections themselves. Check battery before you attempt starting, should be 6.4 or above. If all of the above checks out, give your engine a chance to start after releasing the starter button before turning off ignition, as at that point you have full ignition voltage without the starter drag on voltage. If all else fails, while cranking, and only while cranking, bypass the resistor under the dash.

[daltonathomas94]

I had a feeling that might be the case, but I'm still exceptionally green in Diagnostics.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

of course that was an impossible search for google, only giving basic crank no start results.

I replaced all the wiring about 4 years ago with the cw moss cloth set for 6v.

every time I find a high resistance point I'll clean it off and coat the assembly in NoCorrode

[Seth Swoboda]

You are the first/only person who has told me they have attempted to hand crank start a V8, let alone start is successfully. You are one heck of a man.

[daltonathomas94]

I do it on the regular, and sometimes just for fun.

The real bugger was getting it started with only the hand crank at 2am for two weeks while I was waiting for the new starter to come in and it was my only transportation to work. I got pretty darn good at it.

I consider myself pretty average with fitness, and I wouldn't say its hard, but we'll see after a new set of rings and valves.

The best part is seeing my friends try to do it after I tell them the technique, and I get it on the next pull after they've lost steam.

[petehoovie]

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DO THIS!

[ford38v8]

In lieu of hand cranking, park on a slope and drop it into 1st (some do it in 2nd), foot on the clutch, just get it rolling a bit and pop the clutch, goose the throttle and push in the clutch till it gets running. It shouldn't need more than a 10 foot run if it's ready to start anyway.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by daltonathomas94

I do it on the regular, and sometimes just for fun.

The real bugger was getting it started with only the hand crank at 2am for two weeks while I was waiting for the new starter to come in and it was my only transportation to work. I got pretty darn good at it.

I consider myself pretty average with fitness, and I wouldn't say its hard, but we'll see after a new set of rings and valves.

The best part is seeing my friends try to do it after I tell them the technique, and I get it on the next pull after they've lost steam.

That's pretty funny. You should shoot a video and post it here. I 'd love to see that.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

DO THIS!

Pete, Thanks for that. I couldn't find it or I would have posted it. If I remember correctly, Bob Shellady first came up with that instruction some years back, note that he mentions Radio Shack! I haven't seen him on the Barn for a while, (Supereal) hope he's doing OK.

[Kens 36]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Pete, Thanks for that. I couldn't find it or I would have posted it. If I remember correctly, Bob Shellady first came up with that instruction some years back, note that he mentions Radio Shack! I haven't seen him on the Barn for a while, (Supereal) hope he's doing OK.

Alan,

I checked obits after reading this. Sadly, Bob passed away September 23, 2023. He was a great mechanic and helped so many people. He was also a true gentleman. RIP Bob.

Ken

[ndnchf]

When you get tired of messing with the trickle charger, I can help by rebuilding your generator. I just finished this '37 big truck generator.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by ndnchf

When you get tired of messing with the trickle charger, I can help by rebuilding your generator. I just finished this '37 big truck generator.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Kens 36

Alan,

I checked obits after reading this. Sadly, Bob passed away September 23, 2023. He was a great mechanic and helped so many people. He was also a true gentleman. RIP Bob.

Ken

Ken,
I was afraid of that, and reluctant to follow up on not hearing from him in so long. Bob's son carries on at the shop, but relied on Bob to do the flatheads, which of course he enjoyed! Yes, he was a true gentleman.

[fordscript]

Do you have a ground strap between the engine and firewall? This is very important, and if not, will cause the problem you are having.

[Als48]

Hey Bud,

Welcome to the barn! If your engine is not spinning over very well, it probably means you either have a weak starter and or battery. If it is, it is probably a bad ground or connection possibly at the dropping resistor as someone already mentioned.

If you think you have a stuck open valve on one cylinder that will impede starting for sure. If so, it's most likely an exhaust valve which is accessible by removing the spark plug. Look into the plug hole and you can see the exhaust valve. Verify it is stuck by rotating the engine several times and see if it remains open. If so, you can use a punch or screwdriver to "gently" push or tap the valve closed. You don't want to do this when the cam is calling for the valve to open. Its a little hard to tell, so make sure. Of course, be wary of being too rough with it, as it can bend the valve. Also try to do it in the valve center. A little ATF oil or light weight oil down the carb or into the plug hole might free it up. It might take more than one attempt to free a sticking valve. Good luck with your flathead. Where are you located? Someone more experienced might be able to drop by and help you.

Al Hook

[Als48]

Dalton and Seth, I have hand-cranked a few four cylinder tractors/model A's etc. but never a V8 engine in my 77 plus years. But I've been told that a V8 is easier to crank start than a 4, considering that it has smaller pistons/cylinders to overcome the compression on. Four cylinders do usually have larger flywheels, tho. so that would be a little different, since one would be sort of depending on the flywheel effect to assist in the starting. You are quite the man, tho like Seth said.

Al Hook

[aussie merc]

battery or starter on way out as already stated but check voltage to the coil when cranking sounds like your loosing it somewhere Key switch or ballast resistor or just plain out worn out wiring . 12volt will let you get away with it for ages but 6v NO SUCH LUCK all contacts /switches and junctions must be near perfect and dont forget the earths

[Zeke3]

Sorry to hear of Bob’s passing, I always read and trusted his postings, may he rest in peace.

[Roger W Gerow]

I would like to purchase a "top hat diode". Did a google search, but no help. Must be a part number or such. Any suggestions?

[Gene1949]

Before i went to the dark side (12 volt) I found an aftermarket kit at a swap meet that "jumped" the resister at startup. I went thru all the suggestions here 25 years ago but that old Ford had a mind of it's own on 6 volt.