What's causing this squeak?

[Old Henry]

Haven't pulled the back wheels yet but had my wife rock it this morning while I got under to try to pin point the location of the squeak better. It's not in the wheels. It's in or near the differential. I'm still pulling the wheels to pack the bearings. We'll see if anything is loose on them.

[Old Henry]

So, I took the nut off of a rear hub to remove the brake drum (lug nuts were all tight). It was tough to loosen as I'd torqued it to 200 ft/lb but was then surprised that I didn't need a puller to pull the drum off. Just had to back off the brake shoes. Then was surprised when I got the hub/drum off by this:

See anything wrong with this key?







Yeah. Split right down the middle. The surface of the axle was shiny at points indicating rubbing. That could certainly have been my squeak. We'll see when I get it all back together. Sure would be nice if that was also the cause of my vibration that goes away once this is fixed. The bad news is that Old Henry is now disabled until I get a new key. Plus, I have the mystery of why the sliding and breaking when I had the nut torqued properly? I'm thinking that the taper of this axle I replaced is slightly different than the taper of my hub. Don't know what to do about that.

[dwaynec]

Can you lap it with some valve grinding compound or something like that?

[Old Henry]

Probably could if I knew what that meant and had the equipment for it if such is needed.

[V8COOPMAN]

That damaged key is just the result of something else that's not right, especially if you did have 200 ft. pounds on the nut. How 'bout a couple of pictures of the tapered axle end, and maybe the inside taper of the hub, also. DD

[dude]

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Lady at Jiffy Lube can pin point it..

[dwaynec]

Lapping is pretty easy. Just buy some valve lapping compound and spread it all around the taper. Then slide on the drum without the key. Put your washer and nut on and tighten it just tight enough that you can spin the drum on the axle. Spin it about a dozen times and then remove the drum and clean completely to get rid of all the compound. You should be able to see if all the high spots on the taper and drum have been trued. If not try again for a few turns. It shouldn't take too many spins to get it done.

[Old Henry]

Thanks. What kind of store do I buy the lapping compound?

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

That damaged key is just the result of something else that's not right, especially if you did have 200 ft. pounds on the nut. How 'bout a couple of pictures of the tapered axle end, and maybe the inside taper of the hub, also. DD

Here's the tapered end of the axle showing the smooth area next to the bearing race.



Here's the best I could get of the hub surface:



The thing I noticed most about this picture is that there seems to be some roller bearings missing. Are there? Is that bearing supposed to be full of the rollers or have some space as shown?

[dwaynec]

Napa or any auto parts store should have it.

[V8COOPMAN]

Picture below (thank you Jim P.) shows what that bearing should look like...clean yours up! The axle end and the inside of the hub taper should be clean and shiny, with no imperfections on either surface. All that dirt and rust are not helping the required, tight fit of both tapered surfaces. Is there any sign of cracking at inner end of keyway? Can't tell squat about anything with all that dirt, rust and grease. DD

[Old Henry]

That picture answers my question about the rollers. I see that there are supporting rods periodically in place of a roller so I'm not missing any.

I, of course, will be removing and cleaning the bearings before re-greasing and replacing them.

Off to AutoZone now for the lapping compound.

Thanks for your help.

[john mullen]

just a suggestion to help see what the taper is.. Take sand paper and clean the rust off the hub and axel. then coat the tapered shaft with a felt tip wide blade magic marker. Then add the compound and follow the procedure it will show you quickly just how well the axel and hub match up. Just a couple turns will give the results clearly on the axel and hub.. I hope this helps...Good luck

[Mart]

It's lucky that you found the problem at home rather than on one of your road trips.

Once it is lapped in and fitted with a new key, it might be worth checking the other side and making sure all is well.

Mart.

[uncle max]

Originally Posted by dude

Lady at Jiffy Lube can pin point it..

Yer killin' me.

[Old Henry]

Squeak is gone. Lapping that axle and hub smoothed both right out for a nice tight fit. Another problem was that the threads on the axle were bunged where the nut really needed to tighten so even when it was tight the hub wasn't. An extra washer fixed that up. I was lucky (again) that Old Chuckles up the street dropped in while I was working on it. When I told him I was dead until I ordered a new key he said to just go down to the auto parts place and get a piece of standard ¼" key stock and cut it to length. Sure enough. Went down to O'Reilly's and, once I found someone smart enough to know what I was talking about and how to find it, I got it, took it home, cut it to length and put it all back together. I did take off all of the other wheels to grease the bearings. The other back wheel was fine. So, back "on the road again". That's the good news. The bad news is that the axle/hub problem was not the cause of my vibration. I still have that.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

Squeak is gone. Lapping that axle and hub smoothed both right out for a nice tight fit. Another problem was that the threads on the axle were bunged where the nut really needed to tighten so even when it was tight the hub wasn't. An extra washer fixed that up.

Not sure that I can wrap my head around how that works. First you say that lapping gave you "a nice tight fit". Then you indicate that when the nut was "tight" on the "bunged" threads, "the hub wasn't".

So, you're essentially saying that you tightened the nut to around 200 ft. lbs. on the bunged threads portion and the hub was loose? Then, you loosened the nut, slipped an extra washer on, tightened the nut BACK to 200-ish and all was well? What REALLY happened, Craig? Did you really torque to 200? Quite frankly, those threads on that axle don't look very healthy. DD

[Bolts]

Hi Craig. About the axle threads.
When I pulled the hub off my car for the first time (as I have only owned it 3 months), the nut was loose and the threads looked like the picture you show, maybe a little worse.

Question, you said the hub came right off, so the nut must have been loose when you took it off, right? Otherwise how could the hub have worked loose on the taper?

That was the case with mine. The nut was loose, even with the cotter pin in. This tells me the nut didn't hold anything really and the forces from driving caused the hub to move axially allowing it to slide off the taper. That's why the keys were all messed up. Relative motion between the axle and hub tapers. New keys will become fish weights also (as Alan ford38v8 calls them) if the nut doesn't stay tight.

I would be very careful driving it until you know those threads are holding. Frankly, they don't look any good at all.

I suggest you take corrective action before trusting them, especially as you like to travel out into the remote areas where a cell phone might not work.

Using a spacer washer to get to a point on the threads that will hold means they have been destroyed and the remaining portion of the possibly 1 or 2 threads cannot be trusted to hold. I would worry that tightening the few threads or portions of threads remaining to 200 ft/lbs will only serve to overstress them so they fail also even if the taper is fitting better.

Your call, but this is a safety issue. Not trying to criticize, and hope you understand my concern.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Not sure that I can wrap my head around how that works. First you say that lapping gave you "a nice tight fit". Then you indicate that when the nut was "tight" on the "bunged" threads, "the hub wasn't".

So, you're essentially saying that you tightened the nut to around 200 ft. lbs. on the bunged threads portion and the hub was loose? Then, you loosened the nut, slipped an extra washer on, tightened the nut BACK to 200-ish and all was well? What REALLY happened, Craig? Did you really torque to 200? Quite frankly, those threads on that axle don't look very healthy. DD

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.
You wrapped your head around it just fine.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Bolts

Hi Craig. About the axle threads.
When I pulled the hub off my car for the first time (as I have only owned it 3 months), the nut was loose and the threads looked like the picture you show, maybe a little worse.

Question, you said the hub came right off, so the nut must have been loose when you took it off, right? Otherwise how could the hub have worked loose on the taper?

That was the case with mine. The nut was loose, even with the cotter pin in. This tells me the nut didn't hold anything really and the forces from driving caused the hub to move axially allowing it to slide off the taper. That's why the keys were all messed up. Relative motion between the axle and hub tapers. New keys will become fish weights also (as Alan ford38v8 calls them) if the nut doesn't stay tight.

I would be very careful driving it until you know those threads are holding. Frankly, they don't look any good at all.

I suggest you take corrective action before trusting them, especially as you like to travel out into the remote areas where a cell phone might not work.

Using a spacer washer to get to a point on the threads that will hold means they have been destroyed and the remaining portion of the possibly 1 or 2 threads cannot be trusted to hold. I would worry that tightening the few threads or portions of threads remaining to 200 ft/lbs will only serve to overstress them so they fail also even if the taper is fitting better.

Your call, but this is a safety issue. Not trying to criticize, and hope you understand my concern.

You got it right. The nut was torqued to 200 ft/lbs but was not pushing on the hub tight enough because the bunged threads stopped it. It most likely has been like that since shortly after I put this axle on in December 2012, over 18,000 miles ago. A thin additional washer got it tight and could still get the slots in the nut down to the pin hole to put the pin in so all is well. No worries.

Thanks for your concern and comments.