When did full-blown Model A restoration begin?

[Texas Tom]

I got to wondering the other day: When did full-blown Model A restoration begin?

I'm not talking about a repaint or a rebuild of the drive train. I'm talking body-off, nut-and-bolt restoration in which no two pieces remain connected, all chrome/stainless is renewed, new interior, 100% total restoration/renewal of every single part.

I'm guessing this didn't happen before at least the mid-1960s. Before then, lots of A's were worked on, cleaned up, repainted, etc. But I doubt any were subject to a 100% comprehensive no-holds-barred "as original" restoration.

But maybe I'm wrong. Any thoughts?

[Bob C]

I think you are about ten years off. I got into A's in the early 60's and there was
a lot of fully restored cars then, one that comes to mind was Red Grow's Betsy.

Bob

[Jordan]

by the mid 50's, model a's were about 25 years old. If you drove a model a everyday or just fairly often for 25 years, it would need to be re-restored again.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

My dad was restoring his Model-A's in the mid 50's.

Where there is probably some misconception in how long collector car restoration has been around. When you think about it, the HCCA (Horseless Carriage Club) and the AACA (Antique Automobile Club) were both founded in the mid 1930s, ....and so the thought of restoration had been around since the Model-A was nearly new. AACA has always had the policy where 25 years defines it as acceptable, ...and so folks would have been restoring 'rare' bodystyles of the Model-A by the late 40's - early 1950's for inclusion in that club. Heck, even MARC was founded in 1952, ...and there would have been an established need for a club first before a restorers club would have been formed. Therefore probably late 40's would be a more accurate start date for Model-A's.

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[Texas Tom]

I recognize that Model A's were "rejuventated" prior to the mid-60s.

But were they subject to a full-blown body-off restoration (as we understand the meaning of that term today)?

[Roadster62]

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Great question, wonder what model A is given credit as the "First" totally restored A? The Red Grow Coupe was one of the first I remember seeing photos of in Hemmings. Bob

[jkelsh]

Would've had to been after WW2 wouldn't it? Even if they did completely do what we would consider a restoration before that it wouldn't have been considered a restoration, and they probably wouldn't have done that kind of work on what was just a used car, and you could've bought a real decent one cheaper than what it would've cost to "restore" one. Have to be fifties IMHO anyways

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Roadster62

Great question, wonder what model A is given credit as the "First" totally restored A? The Red Grow Coupe was one of the first I remember seeing photos of in Hemmings. Bob

The amazing thing is that Red's sport coupe still looks great for the age of the restoration. I know the people who now own it.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Texas Tom

But were they subject to a full-blown body-off restoration (as we understand the meaning of that term today)?

No we don't. As proof just look at all the help we have given those that have restored parts. A full-blown body-off restoration is a personal opinion, if one uses a bolt from another car if the first car really restored?

[jkelsh]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

No we don't. As proof just look at all the help we have given those that have restored parts. A full-blown body-off restoration is a personal opinion, if one uses a bolt from another car if the first car really restored?

Has the bolt been restored before being put on the second car?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Texas Tom

I recognize that Model A's were "rejuventated" prior to the mid-60s.

But were they subject to a full-blown body-off restoration (as we understand the meaning of that term today)?

Tom, ....Yes, --and No. By definition today, what we call the quality of an average restoration today is/was unheard of 20 years ago. Taking that back another 20 years prior, hobbyists were satisfied using JC Whitney reproduction parts, or using methods of bodywork (piles of Bondo or cheap patch panels) that are considered grossly inferior to expectations of today.

Also, the research available to us today is much superior to what it was 40 years ago. The Ford Model-A is probably one of the best/most documented collector cars as far as authenticity is concerned.

Tom, I am going to make a rant. Sadly, when you compare the hobbyist performed restorations of Model-A to other marques, I think we are far behind and lacking, -which I wish it weren't so. When you compare a 1928 Model-A Roadster to a 1928 Dodge Roadster, a hobbyist that restores the Dodge accepts the fact there are not massive amounts of over-the-counter reproduction parts, and as such they take original parts and rebuild them back to factory specs. The same thing applies to a Chevrolet, Buick, --or an orphan car of the same era. Based on what I have seen, a 1930 Chevy/Dodge/Buick restorer does not put S10 5-speed transmissions, F100 steering, electronic ignitions, alternators, air conditioners, etc. like Model-A restorers do. So it does beg the question why do we seem to complain about availability of repro parts when those other marque restorers do not think twice about truly restoring instead of replacement.

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[Arlen]

Most of the clubs here in Texas started in the first half of the 60's. MARC, the first national club was formed in 1952. There had to already be an established hobby to justify the creation of a national club. So maybe 48 or 49 would be a safe guess.

[Arlen]

Just think, the Shay Model A's are getting old enough to need their first "Restoration." They grow more like us every day

[Ken Ehrenhofer]

It is hard to say which one would be first but I know Russell Gerrits of Chicago did a frame off restoration and won first place at the MARC Nationals in 1955. It was 1931 Deluxe roadster and it was painted dark blue with a balck top (not knowing any better at the time). He then went on to restore it again in time for the 1957 Nationals and again won first place and once again in 1959. By this time the car was near perfect and inspired me to build one in 1962 and I was able to use Russ's car as a study vehicle on how to do it correctly. Russ had metal valve stems and was way ahead of his time. Of course, Red Grow was doing the same thing at about the same time in California. Another guy was Harold Redinbo from Piqua Ohio who collected almost all NOS parts and built a 1931 Deluxe Phaeton and showed it on the Custom Car Circuit during the mid 60's, Just a little history and I know it is accurate because I was there.....That's how old I am!!!!

[Bob Johnson]

You asked
When did full-blown Model A restoration begin?
100% total restoration/renewal of every single part.
One would have to know the specifics of all the restored cars to state 100%. In the earlier restorations many of the original parts did not need restoration or renewal. So it might be rephrased,

100% total restoration/renewal of all parts which need it.
But now one hasto make a judgement call as to if a part needs to be restored or renewed. And everyone will have a different opinion on that.

The Sport Coupe restored by Red Grow was mentioned as one of the first restorations. In it's time it was a show stopper and won all of the top awards. Red Grow was one of the driving forces in the early Model A clubs. However if that car, as it was when Red showed it, was judged today it would not even qualify for blue ribbon judging. He painted it with Cabriolet colors and that would disqualify it from blue ribbon judging. The point here is not to degrade Red's car but to show how the knowledge of what is "original" has changed over the years. Many of the early restorations had engine blocks and other castings that were polished to remove all of the texture from the casting sand. It was also common to use contemporary fabric for upholstery and soft tops. Thus our definition of a 100% comprehensive no-holds-barred "as original" restoration. is not the same as it was in the past or what it might be in the future.

So I do not think there is a definitive answer to your question. I think the best answer would be that people started collecting and restoring Model As in the early 1950s. Before WWII Model As were just repaired and not restored.

[mmindling]

I remember Russell Geritt's 1931 Ford Roadster as being the first proper Model A restoration that I admired. This would have been in the early 1960's.

My own restoration on a 1928 Tudor started in 1963, and Russ's car was an inspiration to get it right. By the way, he started with a basket case where my car was more complete.

Wonder where those cars are today?

Regards,

[Rowdy]

These is mention of what we call a restoration of cars in the the 1927 Dykes Automobile Encyclopedia. Rod

[bogdonj]

Currently we are doing that for 2 cars at our young age! 28 Speedster and 30 Coupe. Everyday is a learning curve and every bolt is coming off.

[hefty lefty]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Tom, I am going to make a rant. Sadly, when you compare the hobbyist performed restorations of Model-A to other marques, I think we are far behind and lacking, -which I wish it weren't so. When you compare a 1928 Model-A Roadster to a 1928 Dodge Roadster, a hobbyist that restores the Dodge accepts the fact there are not massive amounts of over-the-counter reproduction parts, and as such they take original parts and rebuild them back to factory specs. The same thing applies to a Chevrolet, Buick, --or an orphan car of the same era. Based on what I have seen, a 1930 Chevy/Dodge/Buick restorer does not put S10 5-speed transmissions, F100 steering, electronic ignitions, alternators, air conditioners, etc. like Model-A restorers do. So it does beg the question why do we seem to complain about availability of repro parts when those other marque restorers do not think twice about truly restoring instead of replacement.

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Those cars are a lot rarer than an A. And their owners have money and will spend it.

It is common to exchange 54-62 Chevy sixes with full pressure oiling for the babbit pounders, swap transmissions, and make other changes to late prewar or early postwar Chevys, I know that. I know that if I were doing such vintage of Chevy for my own use that's just what I'd do.

I have a Buick that has a Chevy engine. It's a '62, well out of the traditional hot rod era and also a car that in its four door form no one would restore. I don't consider it a "hot rod", "street machine", or anything but an old car I drive a lot. I put the Chevy engine and trans in as I did not want to fool with the original nailhead and I wanted the car as a daily driver. It would have been crushed out if I hadn't happened to be there when the transmission died.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by hefty lefty

Those cars are a lot rarer than an A. And their owners have money and will spend it.

It is common to exchange 54-62 Chevy sixes with full pressure oiling for the babbit pounders, swap transmissions, and make other changes to late prewar or early postwar Chevys, I know that. I know that if I were doing such vintage of Chevy for my own use that's just what I'd do.

I have a Buick that has a Chevy engine. It's a '62, well out of the traditional hot rod era and also a car that in its four door form no one would restore. I don't consider it a "hot rod", "street machine", or anything but an old car I drive a lot. I put the Chevy engine and trans in as I did not want to fool with the original nailhead and I wanted the car as a daily driver. It would have been crushed out if I hadn't happened to be there when the transmission died.

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