Skip's pumps

[Fourdy]

I just read Skip's face page and noted for the first time that he states:
"super turbine impeller on 37 - 48 type pumps"
"new improved high volume impeller on 32 - 36"

49 - later not mentioned. Does that mean my late waterpumps did not get the benefit of "improved flow"?

Fourdy

[Lenny51]

I had my 51 pumps rebuilt by Skips the impeller was different than my
originals the new design pumps more coolant per hour or minute

[Ol' Ron]

I wonder if you can get the truck pumps with narrow belt pulleys.??

[Fourdy]

Originally Posted by Lenny51

I had my 51 pumps rebuilt by Skips the impeller was different than my
originals the new design pumps more coolant per hour or minute

Lenny, just curious how you were able to verify more flo? I would like to check mine.

Fourdy

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

I wonder if you can get the truck pumps with narrow belt pulleys.??

I have spoken to Skip about this exact subject. He says it is no problem, but the figure he quoted me was eye opening. I have a lot of late model pumps of both kinds, but no press. I am thinking of buying a shop press. If you think about it, it shouldn't be a difficult task.

[flatjack9]

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Originally Posted by tubman

I have spoken to Skip about this exact subject. He says it is no problem, but the figure he quoted me was eye opening. I have a lot of late model pumps of both kinds, but no press. I am thinking of buying a shop press. If you think about it, it shouldn't be a difficult task.

That's what I did.

[Ross F-1]

The only problem is getting the sheaves on/off without bending or breaking them. I had to convert Truck pumps to narrow sheaves for the EAB that came in my truck.

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

I wonder if you can get the truck pumps with narrow belt pulleys.??

Skip can put whatever pulleys you want on. It would be best if
you can supply the pulleys, new pulleys are about $30.00 each.
The guys that did their own still have the stock impellers and
don't get the better cooling benefit of almost tice the coolant
circulating through the system. It's not just a simple rebuild
job to install the turbine impellers. The body of the pumps are
machined in the lathe to make a 22% seat for the turbine
impeller. When the pump is assembled a close tolerance
clearance is maintained between the impeller and the new
seat. This is how more flow is produced compared to the old
paddle wheel type impeller just sitting in water spinning it's
wheel and pumping air.. He also installs a hard SS shaft and
modern seals. Plus you can not get a better guarantee
anywhere. G.M.

[Tim Ayers]

I think there are some things it pays to DIY and some things it pays to pay someone to do it. This is one of the jobs it pays to have it done right.

Taking out a leaky pump once everything is install is not a hard job, but its a job you want to avoid the first time around.

Just my two cents.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by G.M.

.....the better cooling benefit of almost tice the coolant circulating through the system.

Your statement, if taken literally, implies that the number of quarts of water has ALMOST DOUBLED in the system. I'm guessing that your statement would be more accurate if it read something like....."benefit of almost twice the rate of flow of the coolant circulating through the system", though I could be full of it! DD

[Fourdy]

With all due respect, i haven't gotten an answer to my question as to whether the late model pumps have the special turbine since the ad does not state so. Does anyone know?

Thanks,
Fourdy

[scooder]

Fourdy,
It's best to ask the man himself I'd have thunk.
For your information, the later 8BA style pumps already have a proper impeller style doings. Not like the earlier flat paddle type. And do pump water at an already crazy amount. No need to gild that Lilly in my opinion.
But like I said, see what skip says.
Martin.

[krackerjack1951]

if the pumps send water thru the radiator too fast there is a loss of heat exchange..think about that..thermostats impede the water flow to allow water to cool while in the radiator...not really rocket science....water screaming thru the poorly design flattie @ 70 mph is a no no.statts wide open,,no heat exchange,,engine will bump 212 july hot...I'm done with that..

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by krackerjack1951

if the pumps send water thru the radiator too fast there is a loss of heat exchange..think about that..thermostats impede the water flow to allow water to cool while in the radiator...not really rocket science....water screaming thru the poorly design flattie @ 70 mph is a no no.statts wide open,,no heat exchange,,engine will bump 212 july hot...I'm done with that..

Boy, you better stand-by and brace yurself for an edumacation from the "x-perts" on thermodynamics........while I get some popcorn cooked-up! DD

[flatjack9]

Been through it so many times, I'll pass. However he is so wrong.

[texas webb]

You can e-mail Skip and he will answer.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Boy, you better stand-by and brace yurself for an edumacation from the "x-perts" on thermodynamics........while I get some popcorn cooked-up! DD

Oh man, you nailed it! Just wait until GM sees that post! This is gonna get fun! I am going to pop a large bowl of popcorn and like you, sit back and enjoy.

I used to rebuild my pumps - it's easy. A number of years ago, I found it more cost effective to have Skip (George) do them for me. I gotta say, I have had Skip build numerous pumps for me to date. Each and every one has performed flawlessly. Great guy and great workmanship. No question about that.

Now, did any of his pumps make a bit of difference of operating temperature on any engine I'd installed them upon? Nope, not a one.
Keep in mind, every engine I rebuild, I rebuild properly. I also rebuild each radiator properly and no doubt restrict the flow somewhat by installing 155f thermostats in all engines.

Nope, never found the need for "super magical high volume impellers" nor "Water Wetter", nor "Purple Ice". Never found the need for an overflow tank and / or pressure valve. Not even a 4# cap...

Oops, popcorn is done. Gotta go.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

Been through it so many times, I'll pass. However he is so wrong.

Who?...."is so wrong"?....

[kurtis v-8-60]

kracerjack 1951, is right on. slow it down and cool it down. I run v8-60 in race car ran 240 all the time until I learned how to slow the flow of water down. on hot days never runs over 190 think about what kracerjack said

[sidevalve8ba]

Kube, pass the popcorn, please?

[Ol' Ron]

OK, I was planning on having Skip do a set of pumps for me anyway. The pumps are for the Loudon engine and will be putting out max power most of the time, in the 4500/5000 RPM range. That's if everything works the way it's planned. And you know how that goes.. I mentioned this to a friend of mine and he suggested that I have the pumpa set up with narrow belts to prevent tossing a belt at hi RPM. We did loose belts several times in the stock car untill we installed the "SHORT" Belt. Now that's a real trick and hard on pump bearings. I'll look for some pulleys, they come in different off sets??

[Ronnie]

I like my popcorn double butter thanks!!!

R

[MGG]

Kubes's post #17 makes a lot of sense to me. Since the thermostats are sensitive to the water temperature, don't they open or close to whatever opening is necessary to allow the flow which keeps the water at the correct temperature? Of course you need a clean system and efficient radiator. It would seem to me that with the efficient system, if you are ascending a long hill or idling in traffic, the thermostats will sense the hotter water and open to allow more flow so the coolants temperature can remain at/or closer to design levels. What am I missing? Thanks

[Vic Piano]

I hope you guys don't choke on your popcorn… but I'll chime in here just for the hell of it... I'm not at all familiar with the laws of thermodynamics, but I drive my Flatheads all the time, and can draw from my own experience with respect to the 'overheating' problems with Flathead's. When I lived up north (Long Island, NY) overheating was not that big a problem with my Flatheads however, when I moved to Florida, Flathead overheating became more of an issue. I tried a number of 'fixes' including electronic ignitions, various thermostats, etc. Each 'fix' achieved various degrees of improvement however; overheating still persisted, especially while sitting at stoplights and occasionally while cruising at highway speeds. I now run Skip's pumps in my '39 LZ, '39 CS, '51-F-1 and '53 F-100. I don't run thermostats in any of them, nor do I use any additives except some rust inhibitor in the cooling systems. I put a good amount of millage on my Flatheads and I attribute the improved drivability and reliability to a number of changes/improvements that I’ve made through a process of trial and error. One thing for sure, you’ve got to have all systems in peak working order to achieve maximum performance. To that end, I have had my distributors rebuilt (some by Skip and some by Bubba) and just to be sure, I had a few carburetors rebuilt By Charlie NY (I’ve rebuilt carbs & distributors myself in the past and they have worked well but…). One other thing I’ve done is to install electric fuel pumps as primary pumps and convert the OEM pumps to ‘pass through’. All this has resulted in miles and miles of trouble free and cool cruisin’…

These modifications have worked for me, your results may vary... However, you won’t know what works best for you until you try.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Kube

Oh man, you nailed it! Just wait until GM sees that post! This is gonna get fun! I am going to pop a large bowl of popcorn and like you, sit back and enjoy.

I used to rebuild my pumps - it's easy. A number of years ago, I found it more cost effective to have Skip (George) do them for me. I gotta say, I have had Skip build numerous pumps for me to date. Each and every one has performed flawlessly. Great guy and great workmanship. No question about that.

Now, did any of his pumps make a bit of difference of operating temperature on any engine I'd installed them upon? Nope, not a one.
Keep in mind, every engine I rebuild, I rebuild properly. I also rebuild each radiator properly and no doubt restrict the flow somewhat by installing 155f thermostats in all engines.

Nope, never found the need for "super magical high volume impellers" nor "Water Wetter", nor "Purple Ice". Never found the need for an overflow tank and / or pressure valve. Not even a 4# cap...

Oops, popcorn is done. Gotta go.

So you use them but don't think they made any difference in operating temp? Data is accurate and you compared Skips pumps to an engine with the pumps you rebuilt? All things being equal and in similar set ups?

[51504bat]

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Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

OK, I was planning on having Skip do a set of pumps for me anyway. The pumps are for the Loudon engine and will be putting out max power most of the time, in the 4500/5000 RPM range. That's if everything works the way it's planned. And you know how that goes.. I mentioned this to a friend of mine and he suggested that I have the pumpa set up with narrow belts to prevent tossing a belt at hi RPM. We did loose belts several times in the stock car untill we installed the "SHORT" Belt. Now that's a real trick and hard on pump bearings. I'll look for some pulleys, they come in different off sets??

I don't know about different off sets but another option for narrow belts with a truck style mount is a set of Merc pumps. The early 8ba block Merc pumps were wide belts but then they went to narrow belts. The mounting pad height is different between the Merc pumps and the 8rt pumps. The Merc's used a U shaped spacer between the pump the the motor mount rubber biscuit.

[Steve Staysko]

You know I just had a set of 34 pumps rebuilt and all I cared about was that my water pumps were totally brought into the next century with modern seals, stainless shafts, modern bushings and now I have no worries. Thank You Skip!

[Cecil/WV]

Just like politicians, all have different answers and all are correct, but no solutions! Just like in the 60's when on a rainy day we couldn't work and all the drivers went into the trailer and played poker, except me, and when they came out, they all told about how much they had won!

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

So you use them but don't think they made any difference in operating temp? Data is accurate and you compared Skips pumps to an engine with the pumps you rebuilt? All things being equal and in similar set ups?

I don't think they made a difference? I know they did not make a difference.

[prpmmp]

I have a 8Ba with early heads(center water outlet). I put 180 stats on the outlets and have two mechanical water gauges. It would take a good 20 mins to get to 180 plus the temps would fluctuate up and down in any temps(10-95 degrees outside,I drive year around) One day I was driving up a long incline with the outside temps around 90 when I noticed the engine temps climb to 200 degrees once I got off the hill the temps went back to 180. I was suspecting that the water was getting past the stats before they were opening. I removed the stats and filed down the outlets flat(aluminium heads) where the stats sit, put a thin bead of silicone around the outlet and installed the stat on it. The out let is 2 inches and the pipe to the radiator is 1 3/4 so I got a rubber reducer from NAPA and installed it over the stat which holds it down on the outlet and installed the 2 hose over the outlet with two clamps, one to hold the hose on the outlet and one to hold the sleave on the stat. Now the engine warms up evenly and is up to temp(180) in about 10 mins. The temps never fluctuate no matter the out side temps are(180 all the time) So with that painfull explanation I have to agree that the water can run thru to fast to cool and themostats are useful and needed. (The 2 water pumps are from Bob Drake) Pete

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by Kube

I don't think they made a difference? I know they did not make a difference.

Pretty strange results. At least 5,000 people in USA, Canada, South America, Australia, NZ, UK, Germany and many other countries around the world use Skips pumps with great results for better cooling. They buy repeat sets and their friends order them. Skip must have the greatest scam ever going that has lasted 20 years. These people all follow instructions and they work. What more can I say? G.M.

[Ol' Ron]

Well I've sent several of my customers to Skip over the years, and I want them on the race engine. I wouldn't spend the money, if I didn't think it was worth it. Nuff said!!

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Well I've sent several of my customers to Skip over the years, and I want them on the race engine. I wouldn't spend the money, if I didn't think it was worth it. Nuff said!!

Word.

[jerry shook]

I can even smell the popcorn here in Ga. I cant even pronounce some of the words yaul use. I do know when i put the new drake pumps on my car it cooled down a lot.

[scicala]

Glad I was born a little bit later in the early OHV V8 generation. Using this thread for entertainment and possible education only.

Sal

[tubman]

Just for general information, I have an 8BA with a set of truck pumps and a '51 Merc with stock pumps. I made spacers out of 2" square tube to accommodate the Merc pumps which worked perfectly. There is about a 1/2" difference between the lateral spacing of the Merc mount bolt holes and the Ford truck pump bolt holes as well.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by tubman

Just for general information, I have an 8BA with a set of truck pumps and a '51 Merc with stock pumps. I made spacers out of 2" square tube to accommodate the Merc pumps which worked perfectly. There is about a 1/2" difference between the Merc mount bolt holes and the Ford truck pump bolt holes.

Yes. Some folks use those short leg Merc pumps in some applications in order to get the engine to sit 2" lower.

[krackerjack1951]

in my defense....I have learned in most cases don't follow the lemmings over the cliff..another odd circumstance with heat exchange with air conditioner in my previous hot merc....compairing water flow thru radiator,,,merc airconditioner works best heat exchinge with the a/c thermostat on medium cool and fan speed on med flow..the unit removes heat better if the air is reduced in volumn over the coils allows the warm air to have the heat/moisture removed and rendering cool air into cab..back in the day,henrys engineers realized that principle in the flattie engine..a large volume of water thru the radiator is fruitless to cool it down...remember the speed limit was around 49/50 mph..didn't take much throttle to maintain 50 mph....however today we all want to run 60/70 mph which takes more fuel and fuel generates more heat..dash gage begins to rise...rpms are higher.pumping more water.statts are wide open by now.ram air helps a little,,however..raise your right foot.less fuel,,less ram air ..engine slowly cools down to normal..90 % of flattie engines are bored and milled which compounds the heat problem (the water is closer to the source of heat)..I have operated flattie engines since 1956..when I bought my first 49 fffford..lessons learned at my expense are never forgotten, I travel a lot and carry rebuilt pumps where ever I go..when I build my engine,one of the lessons I have learned is to clean sand out of block around all of cyl walls..no need to go further..every one creates their own misery.the bright light comes on at one point in time.we call it learning....still learning..Go Donald!!

[Fourdy]

Originally Posted by Fourdy

I just read Skip's face page and noted for the first time that he states:
"super turbine impeller on 37 - 48 type pumps"
"new improved high volume impeller on 32 - 36"

49 - later not mentioned. Does that mean my late waterpumps did not get the benefit of "improved flow"?

Fourdy

I emailed Skip and he answered back quickly. I am fully satisfied and will be ordering more.

His answer:


Hi Gary, The 37 and later pumps are the ones most improved with the turbine impeller. Stock or after market pumps pump from 65 to
75 gallons each in 5 minutes. All pumps from 37 to 53 get the turbine impellers. These pump 110 gallons each in 5 minutes. Skip

[krackerjack1951]

I am done with this for another year or two..

[Bored&Stroked]

There are tons of myths about flatheads and moving the water TOO fast - personally, I think most are just that. I used to listen to this stuff - and on my stock 39-48 pumps, cut off every other impeller and drilled 1/4" holes in the rest (that was what I was told was the hot ticket). Today - I believe the reason that that "fix" worked is that we had a terrible impeller design - lots of cavitation and no flow.

I use 'Stewart' mechanical pumps in some of my late model race engines - they are recognized as some of the best. So for those of you who think you need to slow it down - here is what they say:

Higher coolant flow will ALWAYS result in higher heat transfer. Coolant cannot absorb heat after it reaches it's pressure corrected vapor point. Furthermore, coolant absorbs heat at a progressively slower rate as it approaches this point

[Ol' Ron]

One thing to consider id Bake cleaning the block before you start. When I ran my shop, all engines were bake cleaned and I used a pump made in Indiana. At the time they were 55 bucks apiece, have no idea what impeler they used. Never had a heating problem. Those that bought a short block furnished their own pumps as well as everything else. When Skip began building pumps, they looked like a good product, amd still do. As for the Ho-Hum pop corn eaters, have a great day.