Pressing New drums onto hubs-wheel stud diameter issue

[Big_Guys_baby]

Hey gang.

Putting new drums on the front of the 46 coupe (I did the backs a few years ago and don't remember this problem). I have a set of the 51A-1125 drums. And the 51a-1107 studs.

I pressed the old studs and hub off of the drum this morning. When I went to press in the new studs and drum, the diameter of the studs isn't wide enough to press in. The studs slide into the hub and drum, but spin freely not giving me enough "meat" to press into.

It appears that a small amount of material from the hub has clung to the old wheel studs when I pressed them out making the holes slightly over sized, I will attach a pic below.

Has anyone run into this before? Do I need new hubs or do you think a trip to NAPA might solve the problem and I could find some oversize studs that will work?

[Russ/40]

The replacements would expand to the hub holes if installed correctly with a press to expand the shoulder. The old suds are supposed to be cut out, not pressed out. When installed the shoulder flares into the hole, and that is the area you cut outfor removal. Hope I'm clear enough without photos.

[MuskegonFlatheadFan]

read this post too
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81667

[1937pickup]

Strange question/statement-does Richard Lacy post here any more? Richard was on the old barn and very knowledgable about these old Ford brakes. He would be the go to guy for this question.

[Big_Guys_baby]

Thanks for the info... Not sure how I am going to handle the next step. I read the post that MuskegonFlatheadfan posted (thanks!) Since I remember the back drums being MUCH less of a deal a few years ago I can only surmise that someone must have replaced them at one time or I just lucked out completely.

What I seem to be understanding is that on the 46's the hub goes on the outside of the drum therefore you need the non-original modern style hub and matching drums (From macs or whereever) if you wanted to run "slip on" style for the fronts... Definitely an appeal to that however I already have a set of the original style drums...

More research on my part is needed. Thanks guys!

[Big_Guys_baby]

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On a positive note, this challenge has forced me to actually learn to read my Vernier Caliper correctly! Now I can read to the .001 inch on my slide caliper... No digital or dial here! :P

[Richard (EV8G)]

Originally Posted by 1937pickup

Strange question/statement-does Richard Lacy post here any more? Richard was on the old barn and very knowledgable about these old Ford brakes. He would be the go to guy for this question.

We have been extemely busy and I have not been posting on the Barn very much...

It is difficult to tell from the photo which style hubs/drums you are trying to mount. The style that the hub flange fits INSIDE the drum are preferable, whereas the style where the hub flange is on the OUTSIDE of the drum (wheel mounts directly to it) are a problem. In either case, the new studs do not get "swaged" as were the originals BECAUSE if that is done against the new drum, stress is
created and the drum can eventually crack around the holes. Also, the drum centers are way thicker than the original stamped type, so whatever "original" studs are purchased will be too short to swage anyway.

We use MT hubs and drums, made in USA. The new hubs come with studs installed and the drum slips over and can be removed to access the brakes. These are the style where the hub flange is INSIDE the drum... IF the new drums are to be mounted on ORIGINAL hubs, special studs with serrations just under the head must be used; a flat must be ground on the head to correspond with the flat on the hub, and then the new stud PRESSED INTO the HUB flange but NOT the drum. Our experience has been that the studs that are supplied as "supposed to fit" do not - diameter too small to fit the hub hole. We have found studs that can be used successfully BUT the holes in the original hubs must be re-sized and also the holes in the drums.

The drum in your photo appear to be the "foreign-made" type which we do not sell because... IF they are the type that mount on the INSIDE of the hub flange, there is no good way to install them because the stud passes through the drum BEFORE it gets to the hub, which is almost Mission Impossible. I have seen where people have tack-welded the stud heads to the drum to keep them in place and from rotating, but have also seen where the weld has failed and the stud rotates when attempting to remove the lug nut...

There is more that I could write, but the "jist" of the matter is that one must begin with COMPATIBLE parts and the studs supplied are often NOT.

Richard Lacy
[email protected] <best contact

[Teich]

The photo looks like the hub outside the drum? If so there is a stud from a Volvo car that will work, it serrated and is a slight press fit did my 1948 Ford car same style drum works well just about 10,000 miles . the part # of ones i used is 9180-B don't know what brand Laurie

[DICK SPADARO]

ooppps, Ok lets start here to determine what is what, When you took your drums apart from the hub, was the drum over the hub or under the hub? This will identify if you purchased the correct replacement drums for the hub you have on your car. If the drums you removed from your car had the drum bell over the hub and studs it is the earlier version unit used from 1940 thru 46 and is refered to as 21a style. If the drum you removed was under the hub and the hub face exposed to the wheel flange, this is the later style 47-8 style, refered to as the 51a style. If you have purchased a 51a style drum it will not index correctly with the 21a style hub so there is more of a problem. So before this gets too complicated what drum style did you start with???

[Big_Guys_baby]

The hubs are what I presume are original to the car, or at least as long as it has been in the family since the 1970's. The hubs mount to the outside of the drum.

The part number from mac's that my dad had bought the drums is 51a-1125.

Ultimately I as I go through the front end of this vehicle I will plan to switch out the hubs with the style that Richard is talking about: American made hubs that go onto the spindle with Slip on drums, such as modern cars. The plan for this car is for her to be a daily driver level of reliability and that in my opinion is my best route.

[DICK SPADARO]

Ok if your drums were originally on top of the hubs these are 21a style drums. The replacement drums that you purchased were 51a drums which go on differently and this is one of the reasons you are having a problem. You can use your hubs you have with out purchasing anything new by getting the correct drums first and then address the stud issue. Using your hubs with the correct style 21a drums you can marry the unit together by using a new style knurled stud. Using these studs requires you to ream the existing stud hole in the hub out slightly larger to except the late model press in stud.If you are interested PM me and I will give you the stud number. Not a big issue but requires some additional time and effort repairing your booboo.

[Richard (EV8G)]

Originally Posted by DICK SPADARO

Ok if your drums were originally on top of the hubs these are 21a style drums. The replacement drums that you purchased were 51a drums which go on differently and this is one of the reasons you are having a problem. You can use your hubs you have with out purchasing anything new by getting the correct drums first and then address the stud issue. Using your hubs with the correct style 21a drums you can marry the unit together by using a new style knurled stud. Using these studs requires you to ream the existing stud hole in the hub out slightly larger to except the late model press in stud.If you are interested PM me and I will give you the stud number. Not a big issue but requires some additional time and effort repairing your booboo.

Hey Dick! I think he is saying that his hubs are on top of the drums, which would be what we call an "outie" hub that is used with an "innie" drum, which are the "problem drums." I think the only "innie" drums available are from South America??? I don't know if the old issues with those have been remedied because I will not sell them, but they used to have uneven castings that resulted in them being WAY out of balance AND eccentric on the outside, even though the shoe surface was machined on center to the drum center...

My recommendation would be to cut his losses and go with the new USA MT drums and either ORIGINAL 01A hubs and the modern studs with the serrations that can be pressed into the hub holes (after resizing the holes and grinding a flat on the stud head...) or the new MT hubs that have the studs installed, which allows the drums to slip on and off. We always machine the drum after it has been mounted on the hub JUST TO BE SURE that the shoe surface is concentric with the hub center, and also stamp registration marks on the hub and drum so they can be reinstalled in the correct orientation if they are removed. We also grind the shoe linings to fit the drum. The new lining seems to be harder than the old days was, so if the lining does not fit, it will probably never "seat in" but will just glaze over and brake performance will be very poor...

Richard

[Big_Guys_baby]

Thanks guys. The hubs mount on the outside of the drum, the wheel directly contacts the hub when the wheel is bolted on. So yes, I have the "problem drum" lol

Richard, how much will a hub and drum run me?

[Veeder]

this is all great inf _ I'm just tearing mine apart so this is very helpful inf.

bob