King pins

[HELENT]

Hello just read in macs book that stainless king pins would make the car steer as if had power assist has anyone try them is this true

[TagMan]

Maybe........compared to rusty steel ones. I think too much advertising hype.

[Krylon32]

I've sold lots of SS king pin sets and the ones I have are steel pins with SS tops, SS bearings and SS stops and standard bushings. No one has commented on if they steer easier???

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Krylon32

I've sold lots of SS king pin sets and the ones I have are steel pins with SS tops, SS bearings and SS stops and standard bushings. No one has commented on if they steer easier???

Well let me be the first, I find that they do steer easier especially when doing low speed maneuvering, Have had the (SSbrakes) setup in mine for over 5 years.

[Krylon32]

I think the SS Brakes set is a true all SS setup while the kits I sell are mostly cosmetic? Also the bearing has a hardened surface on the bottom, the outer shell is polished SS for appearance as are the stops. I've never has a comeback since I have used them. Originally a Deuce Factory item.

[51 MERC-CT]

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Originally Posted by Krylon32

I think the SS Brakes set is a true all SS setup while the kits I sell are mostly cosmetic?

Yes the ones sold by Mac's are a true needle bearing setup and are probably supplied by SSbrake.
Don't expect that just an SS pin without the needle bearings would make it steer any easier.

[DICK SPADARO]

Stainless steel is all it is, stainless steel. King pins are made from hardened steel and much more durable than stainless under load. Stainless advantage is that it doesnt rust up and that's it. As regard to effort in steering, the is resultant questionable as that would relate to the surface friction comparison of the two materials. Regarding the steering issues, If you dont keep the king pins greased properly it wont matter what you have for king pins.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by DICK SPADARO

Stainless steel is all it is, stainless steel. King pins are made from hardened steel and much more durable than stainless under load. Stainless advantage is that it doesnt rust up and that's it. As regard to effort in steering, the is resultant questionable as that would relate to the surface friction comparison of the two materials. Regarding the steering issues, If you dont keep the king pins greased properly it wont matter what you have for king pins.

Yes to replace the hardened king pins with stainless ones would be more for appearance than performance.
The SSbrake king pin setup that is referred to here use needle bearings to reduce friction.

[DICK SPADARO]

Actually that is an incorrect assumption and the SS kit with the needle bearings while looking like the best next thing to oreos is not. The steering system relies on friction to function correctly. With out the drag of the king pin bushing you can easily initiate a shimmy cycle in the front end based upon alignment and caster trail effects. As a second the roller bearings are to be spun 360, used as a king pin bearing they just wiggle and do not completly revolve, this action can indent grooves in the soft stainless. I know some people will question this but if they were the end all of parts they would be used in a bunch of stuff and you dont see it. More of a marketing measure with a bunch of mixmatched parts that fit together,

[Fe26]

Hear-Hear Mr Spadaro.

Before embarking on any modifications with the potential for something to go awry, it's prudent to ask; Why was the original built the way it was? The next question is Is what I'm thinking of doing an improvement, and if so, how is it an improvement. From this point it is easy to then ask Are the new materials an improvement over the old? Then, How will this benefit me?

Dick Spadaro has nailed it. Stainless Steel is softer than the Medium Carbon Steel used in the Kingpins. And why replace a time proven method of Bushing with a Roller type type bearing which has the potential to create problems that a Bush never would.

Bling is one thing, but bling for the sake of it used in structural parts really needs to be thought through. Before ordering such parts ask the supplier/manufacturer for the SAE Data that proves the parts are fit and proper ie: tested for compliance and safety. If this data cannot be supplied, don't use them.

[34PKUP]

Originally Posted by DICK SPADARO

Actually that is an incorrect assumption and the SS kit with the needle bearings while looking like the best next thing to oreos is not. The steering system relies on friction to function correctly. With out the drag of the king pin bushing you can easily initiate a shimmy cycle in the front end based upon alignment and caster trail effects. As a second the roller bearings are to be spun 360, used as a king pin bearing they just wiggle and do not completly revolve, this action can indent grooves in the soft stainless. I know some people will question this but if they were the end all of parts they would be used in a bunch of stuff and you dont see it. More of a marketing measure with a bunch of mixmatched parts that fit together,

And just how much have you used needle bearing king pins?
Or is it just speculation?

[40cpe]

For what it is worth, back in the '60's I had a '58 Studebaker Hawk that had the king pins/needle bearings as factory equipment.

[TagMan]

Originally Posted by 40cpe

For what it is worth, back in the '60's I had a '58 Studebaker Hawk that had the king pins/needle bearings as factory equipment.

I guess that didn't do too much for Studebaker !

[fordor41]

I've had regular steel K/P's in my '41 for 18 yrs.. I grease them all the time, especially after a long trip or bad rain. Checked them 2 yrs ago and not a spot of rust or any noticeable wear..

[Fe26]

[Quote] And just how much have you used needle bearing king pins?
Or is it just speculation?

Mate, there's no speculation involved in this analysis. When Dick Spadaro says the hardness of the bearing can cause indentations in the Kingpin he is correct.

To use such dissimilar materials together ie: stainless steel with a HRC scale of 4-10 in conjunction with a bearing with a HRC scale of 60-70 is an invitation for trouble. The possibility of the harder bearing causing the stainless pin to gall is very high. Once the gall has formed it quickly breaks away from the pins surface and contaminates the bearing, initiating failure.

The recomendation from most bearing manufactureres is to use a shaft with a slighty lower hardness than the bearing, The hardness is usually around 58-64 HRC. This degree of hardness is a long way from what is achievable with Stainless Steel.

In my opinion anyone supplying this type of product is supplying an unsafe product. In the result of a catastrophic failure where the bearing became completely galled and dysfunctional the steering would cease to function. It's not just you out there on the roads, it's other people too. If the failure resulted in a collision causing serious injury or worse, you could also kiss your Insurance goodbye.

I'll also bet the engineers at Studebaker used the appropriate material in their Kingpins, they might not have looked as shiney as Stainless, but they were safe.

[butchbov]

I happen to be running a set of the SSBC pins in my 49 Ford & have over 30K miles on them so far with no problems. I have also had them out in the last year & they show no signs of wear or erosion. SSBC doesn’t need me to defend them, but they’ve been in business since 1975 & I find it hard to believe that they would knowingly be producing an unsafe product.

[4dFord/SC]

Originally Posted by butchbov

I happen to be running a set of the SSBC pins in my 49 Ford & have over 30K miles on them so far with no problems. I have also had them out in the last year & they show no signs of wear or erosion. SSBC doesn’t need me to defend them, but they’ve been in business since 1975 & I find it hard to believe that they would knowingly be producing an unsafe product.

Agree. I've had a set on my '40 for nearly 10 years with no problems.

[36rgtop]

Originally Posted by DICK SPADARO

Actually that is an incorrect assumption and the SS kit with the needle bearings while looking like the best next thing to oreos is not. The steering system relies on friction to function correctly. With out the drag of the king pin bushing you can easily initiate a shimmy cycle in the front end based upon alignment and caster trail effects.,

If friction is required to make the system function correctly, then why do they have to be greased to eliminate friction?

[oj]

I expect the comparison was made when changing out a wornout front end and replacing it with brandnew stuff - I bet it did steer easier.
They always did for me irregardless of bearing style or kingpin material.

[STEVE1103]

If you change the king pins, do it right, use the grease that is recomended, think, which ever ones you use, it will steer much better then then with the old ones!