The Ford Barn

SDJason · 04-06-2013, 01:52 PM

Well,
It's the weekend yet again, so I had a few spare moments to take a look at my disappearing spark (again).

The battery cells come up at 75% with a hydrometer - lower than normal, but not drastically. Also, the battery is only nine months old.

All of the electrical connections definitely check out. Bypassing the ignition switch & ammeter (utilizing one of those ignition cables that clip to the red wire on the coil) as well as hooking a jumper from the negative connection at the starter to the black wire on the coil doesn't change things (turning the engine over with the starter results in one or two sparks, then none, but manually opening the points results in spark every time).

I'd like to be able to turn the engine over with a hand crank, but the engine seems to be off by about a 1/4" or so - just enough so that I can't get a crank to engage. (how hard is it to align the engine properly? that's something I've been meaning to do anyways, but haven't looked into it before now)

I also checked the voltage drop at the coil while the engine is turning over - on both terminals, voltage goes to about 5V when the starter is engaged. Is that about right?

walt jones also suggested that a worn distributor bushing could be causing this symptom - any easy check for that? The cam seems rock solid and without play if I try to move it side to side.

So, to sum up: still no change: spark when manually opening & closing the points, but not when the starter is used. All electrical connections appear to check out. Also no change when the coil & condenser are replaced with new units.

Where I'm currently at:
- Maybe the battery needs to be replaced? - the cells come in at 75%

- Is a drop to 5V at the coil normal when the starter is turning the engine over?

- Is checking for play on the cam the right way to check for a worn distributor bushing?

- How hard is it to get the engine aligned properly so that a crank can be used?

Thanks all (again) for any thoughts you might have on this (and may you never, ever experience this yourself)

H. L. Chauvin · 04-06-2013, 02:58 PM

Hi SD,

(turning the engine over with the starter results in one or two sparks, then none, but manually opening the points results in spark every time).

The above statement means a "lot".

1. "Definitely" appears your starter is "intermittingly" using up all of your electrical power & not allowing any to get to the points at times during starter rotation.

2. I would do this first as a very simple test:

Place vehicle in 2nd gear, depress clutch, & either push the vehicle by hand by yourself, or have someone else help to push, & when you get up a "little" speed, let go of the clutch with the switch "ON" to see if it will either fire or start.

You can spend the next 6-8 months trying 10,000 other things; but again, I would try the above first & report what happened if I wanted to get it running this weekend.

Results of & reporting "what" happened with this test are most important.

Mitch//pa · 04-06-2013, 03:03 PM

Dumb question here the rotor does turn when cranking ?
Put a charge in the battery

SDJason · 04-06-2013, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Dumb question here the rotor does turn when cranking ?
Put a charge in the battery

Actually, that crossed my mind last week (should have posted that check as well, guess it slipped my mind)-but yes, the rotor turns during cranking.

I may have to enlist a friend or willing neighbor to try push-starting.

I've also got a 12V jumpstarter pack, but was wondering if that would harm anything-the only concern I have on that is destroying the voltage regulator (got one of those that looks like a cutout).

The rest of this afternoon is going to be spent babysitting the nieces, but I'm hoping to have some time tomorrow...

P.S. · 04-06-2013, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDJason

Well,......
I also checked the voltage drop at the coil while the engine is turning over - on both terminals, voltage goes to about 5V when the starter is engaged. Is that about right?

Yes, that is about right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDJason

walt jones also suggested that a worn distributor bushing could be causing this symptom

Seriously doubt that. It would have to be wobbly by at least as much as your point gap. That's a LOT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDJason

The cam seems rock solid and without play if I try to move it side to side.

Proves that isn't the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDJason

Where I'm currently at:
- Maybe the battery needs to be replaced? - the cells come in at 75%

Although you will eventually need to do this, that isn't the current problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDJason

- Is a drop to 5V at the coil normal when the starter is turning the engine over?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDJason

- Is checking for play on the cam the right way to check for a worn distributor bushing?

Yes, that is one way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDJason

- How hard is it to get the engine aligned properly so that a crank can be used?

I don't know. I paid a mechanic to align mine! Money well spent.

Going to go out on a limb here... Based on what has been posted here so far, I'm going to guess either some oil (insulating gunk) in the points, or the ignition cable is making poor contact to the lower plate contact.

Pilotdave · 04-06-2013, 04:46 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Re: 12V jumpstarter pack - one I have will NOT turn over a 6V engine. The 6V system sucks up 2x the current that'd be used in a similar 12V setup. My guess is that the packs are not designed to deliver the amps needed.

700rpm · 04-06-2013, 06:18 PM

Which way is the engine off? Up, down, left or right?

SDJason · 04-06-2013, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Which way is the engine off? Up, down, left or right?

Eyeballing it, it looks to be shifted to the right (to the passenger side) by about 1/4"; up-down looks like it might be fine.

(the babysitting for today ended earlier than I thought; I've got another hour or two of daylight to work on this...)

700rpm · 04-06-2013, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDJason

Eyeballing it, it looks to be shifted to the right (to the passenger side) by about 1/4"; up-down looks like it might be fine.

(the babysitting for today ended earlier than I thought; I've got another hour or two of daylight to work on this...)

Hmmm. I don't have an answer for that. Sorry!

Fred K-OR · 04-06-2013, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDJason

Eyeballing it, it looks to be shifted to the right (to the passenger side) by about 1/4"; up-down looks like it might be fine.

(the babysitting for today ended earlier than I thought; I've got another hour or two of daylight to work on this...)

Could be a bent frame. But you may be able to take the front motor mount loose off the cross member and try to shift it over a bit. Don't know if that will work. I have a similar problem with my coupe.

Tom Wesenberg · 04-06-2013, 06:49 PM

Have you tried to sand or file the points contacts to clean them up? From all you've said your car is doing the same thing mine did. Mine fired right off and ran fine once I hand cranked it. A little corrosion can mess with the spark when the starter also draws a lot of current. You could try clipping a 6 volt battery charger to the coil primary and ground to give the coil a little more boost. I wouldn't risk jumping with a 12 volt or you may fry the regulator.

Too bad you can't hand crank it. The up-down adjustment is easy, but left and right might take a bit of study to see why it's off center.

mjw · 04-06-2013, 06:51 PM

I had this same problem and found it to be a bad ground from the engine to the frame/battery. I only discovered it when cranking it over when it was dark (I was in my driveway at night) and saw sparks jumping from the timing or accelerator rods (forget which) to the engine and fire wall. Looked pretty cool but as soon as I ran a ground wire from a starter bolt to the frame it stopped and then it fired right up.

SDJason · 04-06-2013, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Have you tried to sand or file the points contacts to clean them up? From all you've said your car is doing the same thing mine did. Mine fired right off and ran fine once I hand cranked it. A little corrosion can mess with the spark when the starter also draws a lot of current. You could try clipping a 6 volt battery charger to the coil primary and ground to give the coil a little more boost. I wouldn't risk jumping with a 12 volt or you may fry the regulator.

Too bad you can't hand crank it. The up-down adjustment is easy, but left and right might take a bit of study to see why it's off center.

Yeah - sanded the points as well. I do have a 6V/12V battery charger charger - but the manual mode (10 amp or 50 amp) only works for 12V; for 6V the thing reverts to automatic mode, which I think only puts out current if it detects that the battery needs it. I'll hook it up, though - can't hurt trying.

dang - I was hoping that left-right wouldn't be too difficult. ah well.

SDJason · 04-06-2013, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjw

I had this same problem and found it to be a bad ground from the engine to the frame/battery. I only discovered it when cranking it over when it was dark (I was in my driveway at night) and saw sparks jumping from the timing or accelerator rods (forget which) to the engine and fire wall. Looked pretty cool but as soon as I ran a ground wire from a starter bolt to the frame it stopped and then it fired right up.

I'll take another peak at that - might as well sand all the connections down while I'm at it - nothing to lose in trying...

Chuck Sea/Tac · 04-07-2013, 12:38 AM

I can't see what else besides a bent frame that would cause a L/R misalignment . As long as the rear motor mounts are correct and tight. Look underneath the front cross member and I think you'll see the motor mount bolt is off, and maybe even wearing the hole.

Mike V. Florida · 04-07-2013, 01:45 AM

This is my generic no spark troubleshooting list maybe it will help in your case,

No Spark
Some possibilities are:
1.Blown or defective fuse (use of a fuse is an aftermarket item)
2.Bad connections at ammeter, or ammeter itself (t0 find out put a jumper wire from one post of the terminal box to the other to take the ammeter out of the circuit temporarily)
3.Bad ignition switch and/or cable, or loose cable connection at switch.
4.Loose or broken wires at bottom of coil
5.Loose or broken wires inside terminal box
6.Loose, bare or broken pigtail wire under distributor plate, or wire grounding to plate or distributor body
7.Points not opening, or point arm grounding to cam due to worn rubbing block
8.Worn electrode in underside of distributor cap
9.Loose or broken high tension wire from coil to cap
10.Condenser burned out or grounding (some condensers are too long and can touch the distributor body inside)
11.Weak coil
12.Rotor not turning due to loose cam screw or bad timing gear.

Ok now break out a volt meter (a light bulb can give false readings).
Start at the fuse block, you should have voltage on both sides of the fuse. If you only have voltage on one side, replace the fuse or fuse block.

Now with voltage on both sides of the fuse, move up to the junction box. There should be voltage at both terminals. If voltage is present only on one side the problem is at the ampmeter and you should Jumper the ampmeter for now.
You should have voltage on both sides of the coil. If not,
remove the red wire on the coil and check again. If you now have voltage on both sides, you have a problem further on. If the voltage is still only in one side you have a bad coil.

Open the points with a piece of paper and remove the condenser. Turn the key on and you should have voltage at the points.
Replace the condenser and you should still have voltage.

If voltage is missing, remove the top plate and check for voltage on the bottom plate.

Check is the connector from the ignition switch screwed in to far? Do you have voltage on the wire to the upper plate?

Is this wire shorting to ground or broken?

Remove the paper from the points and see that the points are closed. You should not have 0 volts at the points. If not,
The points are dirty or the distributor is not grounded well to the engine.

Phil · 04-07-2013, 09:23 AM

Ok, question. You say opening points manually gives you a spark every time. Does that mean a spark at the points or are you checking the spark through the coil wire to to a head bolt? The later would be the test you would need to make to make sure you have a good coil.

Marshall V. Daut · 04-07-2013, 10:29 AM

I have only skimmed through the postings here with helpful suggestions, but I didn't see my upcoming suggestion cited. One thing you mentioned in the post above caught my eye - there was spark when you manually opened and closed the points, but not when the starter was used. I had a similar problem years ago, whose fault I lay at the previous idiot restorer's doorstep.
From the git-go with this car, it was a hard starter and would only catch when I took my foot off the starter rod after numerous crankshaft revolutions. I went through all the electrical checks (without any gauges, though), but still couldn't find the problem. I changed starter switches, but that didn't help either. While changing the starter switch, I noticed that one of the mounting bolts was noticably shorter than the other three. I stuck an awl down each of the threaded holes and discovered the one with the short bolt was also the shallowest. With a penlight, I peered down into that hole. There at the bottom of the hole was the shiny broken off shank of a different, LONGER bolt. Obviously, some knucklehead who ought to be restoring Edsels instead of Model A's had used the wrong mounting bolt, which was too long. It had bottomed out against the field coils and broken off inside the hole. All four bolts were a bit thicker than the originals, so apparently the "restorer" didn't have the original unique-sized bolts. He simply re-threaded the holes to accept modern bolts and cut one to fit inside the shallow hole with the broken bolt. I was afraid to drill out the remains of the broken shank, lest I go too deeply and damage the field coils beneath the bolt remains. So, I took the starter to an old-time small motor repair shop. I discussed the problem to the older man behind the counter and pointed out the broken bolt. He asked me if the car would only start when I took my foot off the starter rod. (!) Wow! That was exactly the problem! Finally someone behind a counter who knew about Model A's! Replying in the affirmative to his question, the man said that by putting in the second shorter bolt to hold the switch to the starter body, contact was made with the broken shank, which in turn created a short when the rod was depressed. Kind of like an on-off switch that was foot activated. The switch itself became "hot" when the starter rod was depressed. This action did not allow the current to reach the distributor points until the foot was removed from the rod. If the fuel mixture and spark were just right then, the engine would start. That was about a 50-50 chance and was quite frustrating, especially when the engine was cold. He carefully drilled out the broken shank and ensured nothing was still in contact with the field coils. Replacing the starter and switch, the engine started up instantly from then on. The fault was with the shorted out field coils becuse of the broken bolt. I'm not saying this is your problem, but if you are using a starter of unknown origin, this could be the cause of the no-spark condition with the starter. Everything else has been suggested. I'd also suggest that you screw the ignition cable all the way into the distributor body and then back it out two turns. Sometimes going too deeply into the distributor shorts out the points, although you say you have spark at the points. Possibly using the starter affects this and cuts off the spark?
Marshall

SDJason · 04-07-2013, 07:33 PM

Thanks for the checklist Mike V - I'm going to add that to my archives for reference;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

Ok, question. You say opening points manually gives you a spark every time. Does that mean a spark at the points or are you checking the spark through the coil wire to to a head bolt?

To clarify - I get a nice 1/2" blue spark from the coil wire to a head bolt consistently when manually opening the points (and also for about a second or so when the starter is turning the engine over - then it disappears).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

...While changing the starter switch, I noticed that one of the mounting bolts was noticably shorter than the other three...I peered down into that hole. There at the bottom of the hole was the shiny broken off shank of a different, LONGER bolt...It had bottomed out against the field coils and broken off inside the hole...by putting in the second shorter bolt to hold the switch to the starter body, contact was made with the broken shank, which in turn created a short when the rod was depressed...

Did a quick test - removed all four screws holding the starter switch; still no change. That would have been nice if that was the problem.

I really need to get a neighbor or friend to help me try to push start the thing next; I may have to offer up a bribe to find a willing volunteer...

Phil · 04-07-2013, 08:56 PM

If you haven't I would change the condenser. The are cheap and can cause wired problems. If I understand correctly when you are cranking the engine you are going coil wire to head bolt.
If you can, I would borrow a known good distributor see if that solves the problem then work backwards from there if that clears the problem.

If that does not do it Try to borrow a coil are try that.

I am assuming the car was running and just developed this problem.

04-06-2013, 01:52 PM	#1
SDJason Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 443	Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( Well, It's the weekend yet again, so I had a few spare moments to take a look at my disappearing spark (again). The battery cells come up at 75% with a hydrometer - lower than normal, but not drastically. Also, the battery is only nine months old. All of the electrical connections definitely check out. Bypassing the ignition switch & ammeter (utilizing one of those ignition cables that clip to the red wire on the coil) as well as hooking a jumper from the negative connection at the starter to the black wire on the coil doesn't change things (turning the engine over with the starter results in one or two sparks, then none, but manually opening the points results in spark every time). I'd like to be able to turn the engine over with a hand crank, but the engine seems to be off by about a 1/4" or so - just enough so that I can't get a crank to engage. (how hard is it to align the engine properly? that's something I've been meaning to do anyways, but haven't looked into it before now) I also checked the voltage drop at the coil while the engine is turning over - on both terminals, voltage goes to about 5V when the starter is engaged. Is that about right? walt jones also suggested that a worn distributor bushing could be causing this symptom - any easy check for that? The cam seems rock solid and without play if I try to move it side to side. So, to sum up: still no change: spark when manually opening & closing the points, but not when the starter is used. All electrical connections appear to check out. Also no change when the coil & condenser are replaced with new units. Where I'm currently at: - Maybe the battery needs to be replaced? - the cells come in at 75% - Is a drop to 5V at the coil normal when the starter is turning the engine over? - Is checking for play on the cam the right way to check for a worn distributor bushing? - How hard is it to get the engine aligned properly so that a crank can be used? Thanks all (again) for any thoughts you might have on this (and may you never, ever experience this yourself)

04-06-2013, 02:58 PM	#2
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( Hi SD, (turning the engine over with the starter results in one or two sparks, then none, but manually opening the points results in spark every time). The above statement means a "lot". 1. "Definitely" appears your starter is "intermittingly" using up all of your electrical power & not allowing any to get to the points at times during starter rotation. 2. I would do this first as a very simple test: Place vehicle in 2nd gear, depress clutch, & either push the vehicle by hand by yourself, or have someone else help to push, & when you get up a "little" speed, let go of the clutch with the switch "ON" to see if it will either fire or start. You can spend the next 6-8 months trying 10,000 other things; but again, I would try the above first & report what happened if I wanted to get it running this weekend. Results of & reporting "what" happened with this test are most important. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 04-06-2013 at 02:59 PM. Reason: typo

04-06-2013, 03:03 PM	#3
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( Dumb question here the rotor does turn when cranking ? Put a charge in the battery

04-06-2013, 04:46 PM	#6
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Re: 12V jumpstarter pack - one I have will NOT turn over a 6V engine. The 6V system sucks up 2x the current that'd be used in a similar 12V setup. My guess is that the packs are not designed to deliver the amps needed.

04-06-2013, 06:18 PM	#7
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,906	Re: Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( Which way is the engine off? Up, down, left or right? __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

04-06-2013, 06:49 PM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( Have you tried to sand or file the points contacts to clean them up? From all you've said your car is doing the same thing mine did. Mine fired right off and ran fine once I hand cranked it. A little corrosion can mess with the spark when the starter also draws a lot of current. You could try clipping a 6 volt battery charger to the coil primary and ground to give the coil a little more boost. I wouldn't risk jumping with a 12 volt or you may fry the regulator. Too bad you can't hand crank it. The up-down adjustment is easy, but left and right might take a bit of study to see why it's off center.

04-06-2013, 06:51 PM	#12
mjw Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Jersey Posts: 319	Re: Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( I had this same problem and found it to be a bad ground from the engine to the frame/battery. I only discovered it when cranking it over when it was dark (I was in my driveway at night) and saw sparks jumping from the timing or accelerator rods (forget which) to the engine and fire wall. Looked pretty cool but as soon as I ran a ground wire from a starter bolt to the frame it stopped and then it fired right up. __________________ I'm not napping, I'm testing the couch.

04-07-2013, 12:38 AM	#15
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( I can't see what else besides a bent frame that would cause a L/R misalignment . As long as the rear motor mounts are correct and tight. Look underneath the front cross member and I think you'll see the motor mount bolt is off, and maybe even wearing the hole.

04-07-2013, 01:45 AM	#16
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( This is my generic no spark troubleshooting list maybe it will help in your case, No Spark Some possibilities are: 1.Blown or defective fuse (use of a fuse is an aftermarket item) 2.Bad connections at ammeter, or ammeter itself (t0 find out put a jumper wire from one post of the terminal box to the other to take the ammeter out of the circuit temporarily) 3.Bad ignition switch and/or cable, or loose cable connection at switch. 4.Loose or broken wires at bottom of coil 5.Loose or broken wires inside terminal box 6.Loose, bare or broken pigtail wire under distributor plate, or wire grounding to plate or distributor body 7.Points not opening, or point arm grounding to cam due to worn rubbing block 8.Worn electrode in underside of distributor cap 9.Loose or broken high tension wire from coil to cap 10.Condenser burned out or grounding (some condensers are too long and can touch the distributor body inside) 11.Weak coil 12.Rotor not turning due to loose cam screw or bad timing gear. Ok now break out a volt meter (a light bulb can give false readings). Start at the fuse block, you should have voltage on both sides of the fuse. If you only have voltage on one side, replace the fuse or fuse block. Now with voltage on both sides of the fuse, move up to the junction box. There should be voltage at both terminals. If voltage is present only on one side the problem is at the ampmeter and you should Jumper the ampmeter for now. You should have voltage on both sides of the coil. If not, remove the red wire on the coil and check again. If you now have voltage on both sides, you have a problem further on. If the voltage is still only in one side you have a bad coil. Open the points with a piece of paper and remove the condenser. Turn the key on and you should have voltage at the points. Replace the condenser and you should still have voltage. If voltage is missing, remove the top plate and check for voltage on the bottom plate. Check is the connector from the ignition switch screwed in to far? Do you have voltage on the wire to the upper plate? Is this wire shorting to ground or broken? Remove the paper from the points and see that the points are closed. You should not have 0 volts at the points. If not, The points are dirty or the distributor is not grounded well to the engine. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

04-07-2013, 09:23 AM	#17
Phil Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bethany, Ok Posts: 382	Re: Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( Ok, question. You say opening points manually gives you a spark every time. Does that mean a spark at the points or are you checking the spark through the coil wire to to a head bolt? The later would be the test you would need to make to make sure you have a good coil.

04-07-2013, 10:29 AM	#18
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,112	Re: Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( I have only skimmed through the postings here with helpful suggestions, but I didn't see my upcoming suggestion cited. One thing you mentioned in the post above caught my eye - there was spark when you manually opened and closed the points, but not when the starter was used. I had a similar problem years ago, whose fault I lay at the previous idiot restorer's doorstep. From the git-go with this car, it was a hard starter and would only catch when I took my foot off the starter rod after numerous crankshaft revolutions. I went through all the electrical checks (without any gauges, though), but still couldn't find the problem. I changed starter switches, but that didn't help either. While changing the starter switch, I noticed that one of the mounting bolts was noticably shorter than the other three. I stuck an awl down each of the threaded holes and discovered the one with the short bolt was also the shallowest. With a penlight, I peered down into that hole. There at the bottom of the hole was the shiny broken off shank of a different, LONGER bolt. Obviously, some knucklehead who ought to be restoring Edsels instead of Model A's had used the wrong mounting bolt, which was too long. It had bottomed out against the field coils and broken off inside the hole. All four bolts were a bit thicker than the originals, so apparently the "restorer" didn't have the original unique-sized bolts. He simply re-threaded the holes to accept modern bolts and cut one to fit inside the shallow hole with the broken bolt. I was afraid to drill out the remains of the broken shank, lest I go too deeply and damage the field coils beneath the bolt remains. So, I took the starter to an old-time small motor repair shop. I discussed the problem to the older man behind the counter and pointed out the broken bolt. He asked me if the car would only start when I took my foot off the starter rod. (!) Wow! That was exactly the problem! Finally someone behind a counter who knew about Model A's! Replying in the affirmative to his question, the man said that by putting in the second shorter bolt to hold the switch to the starter body, contact was made with the broken shank, which in turn created a short when the rod was depressed. Kind of like an on-off switch that was foot activated. The switch itself became "hot" when the starter rod was depressed. This action did not allow the current to reach the distributor points until the foot was removed from the rod. If the fuel mixture and spark were just right then, the engine would start. That was about a 50-50 chance and was quite frustrating, especially when the engine was cold. He carefully drilled out the broken shank and ensured nothing was still in contact with the field coils. Replacing the starter and switch, the engine started up instantly from then on. The fault was with the shorted out field coils becuse of the broken bolt. I'm not saying this is your problem, but if you are using a starter of unknown origin, this could be the cause of the no-spark condition with the starter. Everything else has been suggested. I'd also suggest that you screw the ignition cable all the way into the distributor body and then back it out two turns. Sometimes going too deeply into the distributor shorts out the points, although you say you have spark at the points. Possibly using the starter affects this and cuts off the spark? Marshall

04-07-2013, 08:56 PM	#20
Phil Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bethany, Ok Posts: 382	Re: Disappearing Spark update - nope, not fixed yet : ( If you haven't I would change the condenser. The are cheap and can cause wired problems. If I understand correctly when you are cranking the engine you are going coil wire to head bolt. If you can, I would borrow a known good distributor see if that solves the problem then work backwards from there if that clears the problem. If that does not do it Try to borrow a coil are try that. I am assuming the car was running and just developed this problem.