Man, I got dirty just thinking about this engine.

[ford38v8]

You guys talking about the smell puts me in mind of the garage in San Francisco that my father used to take his cars to. The old oil smell hit you from the moment you stepped into the shop!
The owner was a very fat old guy in bib overalls, a chaw in his cheek, and army boots with no laces on his feet. He'd waddle like a duck across the hard, oil impregnated dirt floor, studded with soda bottle caps. A few hanging bare light bulbs, buckets and barrels of discarded valves and camshafts, girlie calendars in the small dark toilet room, daylight showing through nail holes in the corrugated roof.

That old garage is long gone now, that property and everything around it now sporting high rise apartments housing yuppies who never smelled the good old smells of San Francisco. Remember the smell of Folgers coffee on the approach to the Bay Bridge? The smell of fish and salt air at the wharfs?

Oops, Off-Topic-Alert!

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by lecktrix

Thats a Pennzoil killed block... Lots of people dedicated everything they had to one motor oil, and when you open up a true Pennzoil users motor, this is what it looks like. It was a wax based motor oil, and as you can see, this is what it did. Look it up further on any site.. Pennz helped motors, but totally gunked them up.... Sure in the later years it was different and detergent... but look at early posts about original engines destroyed by gunk, and took three days in the hot tank to clean

I had a 65 Galaxy that only saw Pennzoil, I had to take a hammer and chisel to find all the head bolts. I will never use it in my motors

[donald1950]

i worked a second and mission in the mid 60s for the phone company and loved the smell of the coffee roasting every morning. I just got to walk accross the golden gate bridge in July 4th. first time in 25 years to do that and see the fog rolling accross the bridge and SF with a fog bank over it. i really miss natures air conditioning........

[ford38v8]

And I've been where you are now. The Alamo was a whole lot bigger in the movies!

[Torchie]

Heard. Not to hijack this thread....
Any tips or hints in regards to the Welded Washer/Nut system for removing busted studs/Bolts..?
I have 2 on my 8ba and have tried that procedure twice now with out any luck.
I have looked at various threads and have followed the procedures but mine have been a no go.
Thanks.
Torchie.

[GreenMonster48]

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Originally Posted by ford38v8

You guys talking about the smell puts me in mind of the garage in San Francisco that my father used to take his cars to. The old oil smell hit you from the moment you stepped into the shop!
The owner was a very fat old guy in bib overalls, a chaw in his cheek, and army boots with no laces on his feet. He'd waddle like a duck across the hard, oil impregnated dirt floor, studded with soda bottle caps. A few hanging bare light bulbs, buckets and barrels of discarded valves and camshafts, girlie calendars in the small dark toilet room, daylight showing through nail holes in the corrugated roof.

That old garage is long gone now, that property and everything around it now sporting high rise apartments housing yuppies who never smelled the good old smells of San Francisco. Remember the smell of Folgers coffee on the approach to the Bay Bridge? The smell of fish and salt air at the wharfs?

Oops, Off-Topic-Alert!

You should write more. I felt like I was there!

[Heard]

Originally Posted by Torchie

Heard. Not to hijack this thread....
Any tips or hints in regards to the Welded Washer/Nut system for removing busted studs/Bolts..?
I have 2 on my 8ba and have tried that procedure twice now with out any luck.
I have looked at various threads and have followed the procedures but mine have been a no go.
Thanks.
Torchie.

Torchie,
It took a little experimenting for me to get it to work. The first day I tried it, I got one out but the second one I tried kept breaking right where I welded it. I took a break and on the second day I realized (I told you I was a slow learner) after thinking about it that I wasn't getting good penetration on the broken bolt when I was welding the washer. I mean, good grief, the welding material is supposed to be 65,000 psi or some such. It should not break off.

I upped the voltage on my MIG welder and made sure I started in the center of the broken bolt. Then I continued to weld towards the washer and out onto the washer all in one 'session' (if you know what I mean). Then I welded the nut on without being too careful about trying to maintain a place for a wrench. I ended up just using vise grips on the nut anyway. When I welded the nut, I tacked it around the outside but I then also welded the sh*t out of it on the inside. This also made the nut (and broken bolt) red hot which probably helps. Then let it cool to touch before trying to loosen it.

On the washer, I was initially concerned I would weld the washer to the block so I purposely bought washers that were slightly smaller than the stud. Turned out this was not an issue and I ended up using washers that fit the bolts. Even after welding the hell out of it as described above, and having a fairly decent gap around the washer, I never welded it to the block.

Once I got the hang of it, it was pretty simple. I would only add that once it started to move, I worked it back and forth some before trying to just unscrew it. The second day it only took me about 30 minutes to an hour to get out the remaining 8 or 9 broken bolts. Good luck! You can do it! Turn up the heat on that welder.

[B-O-B]

IF I might add when it is hot put some candle wax next to the bolt & let it wick into the threads.

[JM 35 Sedan]

I could not get that washer & nut welded correctly to a broken stud either using my mig, but then I am not the best welder either. I probably should have tried some variations like Heard mentioned. I talked to some who claimed success at this and they said I needed to use a tig welder to get the heat and penitration needed to make this work well. Since I didn't have access to a tig, I went to plan B, and that was let the machine shop get them out . I would like to try it again though, and do it with my mig.

[TDO]

I remember back in the 50's and 60's The old 6 cyl chevy engines when you took off the rocker arm cover all you could see in the cover was the print of the rocker arms. You could rest assure that it was a QUAKER STATE oil user.

[Torchie]

Thanks for the reply Heard.
Sounds exactly the way I was doing it so I guess that I will try it again.
Some threads tell you to use a washer with a hole that is slightly smaller than the bolt diameter. The washer I used was like you described . Just slightly larger. I know others have talked about wax and kroil oil penetrent to seep down into the threads when the bolt is hot but with the washer laying flat on the block I don't see how anything could get in there.
I had my Mig set on 2 the first time and the 2nd time I set it on 3 and immediatly burnt thru the washer so I went back to the 2 setting.
I have also read that sometimes it takes 2 or 3 attempts.
Torchie.

[Mart]

I use that method but on one particularly stubborn one I also partially drilled down into the broken bolt. filling the hole in the bolt with weld thermally shocks it and shrinks it as it cools.

Mart.

[Heard]

Torchie - I'm not sure what type of MIG you have with settings 2 and 3.

My little Lincoln 175 has settings from A thru E (with E being the highest) and wire speed from 0 - 10 (I think). I had mine set on D and the wire speed at about 7ish. I'm pretty sure I have .023 wire loaded in it.

If you are blowing through that washer trying to get it fixed to the bolt, you may be correct that 3 is too much on your setup. Between the voltage and the wire speed, I tried to get it such that I could start the arc in the center of the bolt and hold it there for maybe a second or so, then just move out to the washer fairly quickly and then back to the bolt. Then out to the washer on the other side and back. It is hard to describe....for me it was a count of say....1,2,3 on the bolt, then a count of 1 as you move out over the washer, hold it for 1 count, then back to the bolt on 3. So I'm mentally counting 1,2,3...1,2,3. The first count is all on the bolt. The second count moves me out over the washer and I end up back on the bolt on 3.

Good luck. I think you'll get it if you fiddle with it some. And I believe Mart is right on about the heat on the bolt. I think that first arc on the bolt is the key and how long you can hold it there to get good penetration.

[Torchie]

Heard.
Mig is an auto parts store knock off. Amp settings go 1-4. Wire speed is variable like yours 0-10. I do the count thing myself sometimes when welding.
When I try it again I will drill into the bolt for better penetration as Mart suggested. I will let you know how it turns out.
Thanks again.
Torchie.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Torchie

Thanks for the reply Heard.
Sounds exactly the way I was doing it so I guess that I will try it again.
Some threads tell you to use a washer with a hole that is slightly smaller than the bolt diameter. The washer I used was like you described . Just slightly larger. I know others have talked about wax and kroil oil penetrent to seep down into the threads when the bolt is hot but with the washer laying flat on the block I don't see how anything could get in there.
I had my Mig set on 2 the first time and the 2nd time I set it on 3 and immediatly burnt thru the washer so I went back to the 2 setting.
I have also read that sometimes it takes 2 or 3 attempts.
Torchie.

A penetrant will seep through a very tight space, the washer is not going to block it at all. In fact it will work it's way down into the threads on the stud which is even tighter. This is somewhat like sweating a copper joint, it will pull it right in.

[Mart]

Sorry for turning this into a bolt removal thread, Heard.

Here's a thread I started on the subject. It mentions a few little other tips (impact wrench, tightening first, etc.) so is worth a read.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123671

Mart.