What oil on fresh rebuild?

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by captain j

What harm would it be to use a non Detergent oil anyways? Napa carries it. I understand with all of you guys using detergent oils that I'm sure it's fine. I don't want to go against the builder and have issues

Non detergent oil lets all the crud to settle in the bottom of the oil pan and valve chamber. Non detergent usually doesn't have any anti wear additives and I've never seen a multi grade in non detergent. On the other hand I ran non detergent in my sept 29 engine for probably forty years with no problem other than heavy crud build up. As for the babbitt, this engine still has the original babbitt and I have owned it since the spring of 1960. I now use Walmart 20w50 high detergent. Detergent oil keeps foreign particles suspended so they are drained out with oil changes instead of collecting in the low spots in the engine.

As others have said, its best to use whatever the rebuilder recommends if you expect to have any warranty. The last 350 GM crate engine that I bought, the parts man said to break it in with 30 weight non detergent for the first thousand miles and then change to a good detergent grade oil. The thought was that some wear is needed for the rings to seat. Non detergent has no anti wear additives and helps speed up break in..

I overhaul my engines and have nobody to answer to !!! I use 30 weight non detergent for break in. On first start up, I run the engine for 20 minutes and shut it down. I then retorque the head and change the oil. I then run put about 100 miles on it and change the oil again. I change the oil often untill I get about a thousand miles or am satisfied that the rings are seated. After that its strictly high detergent oil only. This is just how I do mine. Don't do what I say, do whatever the engine builder says because he is where responsibility falls. This is just what works for me. Oil is cheap compared to engines. The drained oil works good in son inlaws worn back hoe hydraulic system so that I have no problem with waste oil.

[captain j]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

who is the builder since i am local to you

Hercules welding and machine in palmyra

[Old182]

Captain j, I suppose you should go with what your rebuilder recommends as long as you trust him enough to re-rebuild the engine if it fails. This assumes he doesn't put the blame for failure on something other than the rebuild (just being a New Yorker). Regarding detergent vs. non-detergent oils, non-detergents contain NO additives. They are strictly straight mineral oil and that's what Henry (and everybody else) used because that's all there was in 1930. If you choose to use a non-detergent oil, here's what you'll be giving up: Detergent (NOT Lux Liquid! No one puts anything in oil that will wash oil from cylinder walls or other parts. It would be counterproductive and dumb); Dispersant (to keep particles of combustion, sand, and other junk that finds its way into the crankcase from all sorts of sources in suspension); Antiwear agents (to prevent wear); Friction modifiers (to allow sliding surfaces to, well, slide easier); Oxidation inhibitors (to slow down the inevitible process of oil oxidation); Pour depressant (to allow the oil to flow at low temps); Antirust (to mitigate the damage from water that will sneak past the rings on a cold engine and from the atmosphere); and Antifoam (oil is totally useless when it foams, air being a lousy lubricant). Talk with your rebuilder and let him know your concerns. Sounds dangerous to run non-detergent for very long as you will start to develop all the bad stuff mentioned above that detergent oil is designed to prevent. Good luck!

[Fred K-OR]

I also think I would stick with the rebuilder's recommendations so you have a warranty to go back with.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by captain j

Hercules welding and machine in palmyra

I don't even recommend non detergent for a 3.5 horse lawnmower! Any builder that thinks his babbitt is going to seperate from the caps don't know how to tin the caps. I agree with J&M, use any detergent oil but diesel is better. It has zddp and other high pressure additives that will help keep your engine running right. If it is good enough to keep a diesel running for 1,000,000 miles it should be great in a Model A.

[Mitch//pa]

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Originally Posted by captain j

Hercules welding and machine in palmyra

Hi Cap,
they are very close to my shop just over the bridge. i deal with alot of local model A things around the community but never heard anything about them good or bad. what kind of warranty comes with it ??? do they do the babbitt in house or farm it out??

[captain j]

As far as I know it's all done in house. Someone from this site recommended him to me for rebuilding the model a engine. He has done others and also had two others redone in his shop waiting to be picked up.
What if I use non detergent and added extra zinc?

[Mitch//pa]

what warranty do they give

[captain j]

Don't know what warranty they give? If anything is wrong with it it's going back. If it starts leaking oil out the back of it, it's going back. That's why I took it there in the first place. I didn't spend that much to have it run rough, leak oil, smoke or anything. I've talked to other engine builders and they all had good things to say about this guy and especially about him doing Babbitt bearings.

[Mitch//pa]

use what your guy says to, even though it goes against conventional wisdom.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi captain,

Appears after this particular one (1) rebuild, with this rebuilder, it is a simple decision at this particular time:

1. Want rebuilder's "warranty", use non-detergent oil.

2. Don't want rebuilder's warranty, don't use non-detergent oil.

3. If you concur, oil choice could be considered over.

4. If you are curious, you can now ask whether to use White Wall or Black Wall tires with your final oil selection.

5. Guaranteed to some get varied opinions, but you will get sincere "good" opinions like those above on oil.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by h. L. Chauvin

hi captain,

appears after this particular one (1) rebuild, with this rebuilder, it is a simple decision at this particular time:

1. Want rebuilder's "warranty", use non-detergent oil.

2. Don't want rebuilder's warranty, don't use non-detergent oil.

3. If you concur, oil choice could be considered over.

4. If you are curious, you can now ask whether to use white wall or black wall tires with your final oil selection.

5. Guaranteed to some get varied opinions, but you will get sincere "good" opinions like those above on oil.

absolutely!!

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Mike V,

If one studies & analyses the responses on this Forum one begin s to realize that this Forum is composed of the real backbone of America ....... true Americans trying to kindly assist others.

The individuals responding are sending messages from past experiences -- not just political B.S. to get recognition -- we can all respect past experiences.

This Forum is what America was intended to be ...... respect opinions of others even though we do not agree with other opinions -- what a wonderful group on this Forum.

Let us respect all opinions ... we are one !!!!!

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Hi Mike V,

If one studies & analyses the responses on this Forum one begin s to realize that this Forum is composed of the real backbone of America ....... true Americans trying to kindly assist others.

The individuals responding are sending messages from past experiences -- not just political B.S. to get recognition -- we can all respect past experiences.

This Forum is what America was intended to be ...... respect opinions of others even though we do not agree with other opinions -- what a wonderful group on this Forum.

Let us respect all opinions ... we are one !!!!!

Especially when it comes to oil.

[captain j]

I'm going to use the non detergent and follow what the builder says to do. Obviously I would like to use newer oil with all the added benefits it comes with. After it's been on the road and I know all is good with the rebuild in due time I'll probably switch to a newer style oil. For now I'll play it safe.