Most potential power out of the Model A engine ?

[Special Coupe Frank]

I am curious as to how far one can reasonably go in boosting the power of the model A, and still have a streetable / reliable machine, in terms of HP output.

Some basic scenarios/parameters:

1) HC head

2) Performance Cam ( so-called Touring grind?)

3) improved induction ( bored-out intake, dual Zeniths, S-berg down draft, Webber down-draft, etc.)

4) Counterbalanced crank & lightened flywheel

5) Larger valves

6) Porting / relieveing ?

7) Insert bearings / pressure oiling

I guess I'm curious as to how much benefit each particular mod would achieve, and their cumulative effect, if combined in the same mill.

What's the practical limit on power out-put w/o turning it in to a "hand-grenade motor" ?

I know we're primarily a restoration-based group, so I really don't want to provoke any controversy; I think I am staying within the realm of mods often discussed and (usually?) tolerated by participants here...


Thanks !

SC Frank

[CA Victoria]

Dyno sheets fron Pirano's Antique Auto in Texas:

http://modelaparts.net/dynosheets.htm/dynosheets.html

[Rowdy]

I do not have the exact hp in front of me, but an engine built for the GR was close to 90 hp. It had one of Bill Stipes IB330 cams, a Brumfield head and a downdraft carburetor. I do not know what you are considering a touring cam as I have heard many people use the term, but it means something else to individual cam grinders, so results will differ. Rod

[columbiA]

In my coupe I run a 33 B with a 5.9 head and OD with 4.11 & 2.94 ratios and no other mods & I can pull all but the steepest hills in OD & cruise at 60 an average.I dont feel that any more power is needed and I live in a mountainous area.

[Loyd Nix]

I read up on a Stipes cam and it appears that to max its performance you should also perform several other modifications. It seemed to me that if you are inclined to do a full build it would be the way to go but if you just want to pep up ol' Betsy,as I did, just go with a HC head, a touring cam and a FS ignition. I am quite happy with the improvement.

[eagle]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

My uncle had an engine built by Ron Kelley for a peitenpol that put out around 100 hp.

[MrTube]

Uhoh,

Are we going to see you burning rubber and using the parking brake to slide around corners in NE PA?

[V4F]

i believe mine has approx. 80 hp . mild street motor . daily driver .......... nice motor by STAN VERMILE .

[P.S.]

I think I just figured out why we keep seeing all the Model A blocks with cracks in them...

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by P.S.

I think I just figured out why we keep seeing all the Model A blocks with cracks in them...

Phooey.

The ones I'm discovering are stockers, not even re-bored. Some even have original factory pistons and valves.

Not saying there aren't "modified engines" with the same issues...

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by MrTube

Uhoh,

Are we going to see you burning rubber and using the parking brake to slide around corners in NE PA?

Depends on whether or not I can get my hands on some of Granny Clampett's "Tonic"...

( Hell, I won't even need the car !!! )



SC Frank

[jcheshire31]

I'd talk to Ron Kelley about building an engine with power. He bought my grandpa's old AA and built an engine for it that he then pulled a flatbed trailer with his speedster on it wherever he went and still cruised around 50. But if that's the case I hope you have a deep wallet.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by jcheshire31

I'd talk to Ron Kelley about building an engine with power. He bought my grandpa's old AA and built an engine for it that he then pulled a flatbed trailer with his speedster on it wherever he went and still cruised around 50. But if that's the case I hope you have a deep wallet.

The old saying still holds true, "Horsepower costs"

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by columbiA

In my coupe I run a 33 B with a 5.9 head and OD with 4.11 & 2.94 ratios and no other mods & I can pull all but the steepest hills in OD & cruise at 60 an average.I dont feel that any more power is needed and I live in a mountainous area.

I agree.
I'd want a counterweighted crank, higher compression head, and a 3.27 rear end or overdrive, and I'd think you'd have a great touring car.

[Bill Stipe]

Cruises 70 On Interstate 90 from Iowa to home with pedal to spare and can run 55 MPH in second gear if needed and can peg the speedometer faster then you can believe with all of the above items. 3.54 gears no over drive.
I am so happy with this engine I am working on 6 more for all my cars and trucks.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

And now we return to our regularly scheduled broadcast! Bill W.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Bill Stipe

Cruises 70 On Interstate 90 from Iowa to home with pedal to spare and can run 55 MPH in second gear if needed and can peg the speedometer faster then you can believe with all of the above items. 3.54 gears no over drive.
I am so happy with this engine I am working on 6 more for all my cars and trucks.

can you give us more details about the motor. What kind of belt & pulley system is that?

[Bruce,Upstate NY]

What is the black box on the steering column?

[Bill Stipe]

Well Frank said it all in his first post on the topic!


1) HC head

2) Performance Cam ( so-called Touring grind?)

3) improved induction ( bored-out intake, dual Zeniths, S-berg down draft, Webber down-draft, etc.)

4) Counterbalanced crank & lightened flywheel

5) Larger valves

6) Porting / relieveing ?

7) Insert bearings / pressure oiling


I also run a light Alum flywheel with iron insert 25#, 7 to 1 CR head that I welded the chambers up and recut.
And then a new quality camshaft, but I can't say much here seems most guys have there mind made up on that one, all I can tell you is stay away from toooo much duration there is more then just lift and duration to a cam design.
Stay away from too much valve spring pressure these are basicly tractor engines with lots of torque high spring pressure just uses HP and is hard on the valve train.
Make sure everthing is blue printed and in perfect alignment. line hone is a must, no twisted or bend rods! and Balance every thing to the closest specs.
If you pressure the oil system again stay away form high pressure. High volume is more important that every thing is getting oiled, this engine ran a 20 # i wanted 35 but drilled a little too large of hole to squirt on the cam gear. I went back in to change that and wanted to look at every thing after a grueling 1600 miles and all my bearings look like the day I assembled them.
To me a centrifugal advance dist is a must for performance.
Also if you have a helper he has to be alert and not sleeping like my helper seems to be most the time!!

PS: the black box is for the nitrous!
I have a centrifugal advance dist so I use the spaark lever for my turn signal.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Bill Stipe

Well Frank said it all in his first post on the topic!


1) HC head

2) Performance Cam ( so-called Touring grind?)

3) improved induction ( bored-out intake, dual Zeniths, S-berg down draft, Webber down-draft, etc.)

4) Counterbalanced crank & lightened flywheel

5) Larger valves

6) Porting / relieveing ?

7) Insert bearings / pressure oiling


I also run a light Alum flywheel with iron insert 25#, 7 to 1 CR head that I welded the chambers up and recut.
And then a new quality camshaft, but I can't say much here seems most guys have there mind made up on that one, all I can tell you is stay away from toooo much duration there is more then just lift and duration to a cam design.
Stay away from too much valve spring pressure these are basicly tractor engines with lots of torque high spring pressure just uses HP and is hard on the valve train.
Make sure everthing is blue printed and in perfect alignment. line hone is a must, no twisted or bend rods! and Balance every thing to the closest specs.
If you pressure the oil system again stay away form high pressure. High volume is more important that every thing is getting oiled, this engine ran a 20 # i wanted 35 but drilled a little too large of hole to squirt on the cam gear. I went back in to change that and wanted to look at every thing after a grueling 1600 miles and all my bearings look like the day I assembled them.
To me a centrifugal advance dist is a must for performance.
Also if you have a helper he has to be alert and not sleeping like my helper seems to be most the time!!

PS: the black box is for the nitrous!
I have a centrifugal advance dist so I use the spaark lever for my turn signal.

Do you build engines for other people, or just yourself?