What is reasonable charge for engine work? 59A

[C26Pinelake]

It won't be cheap. It will likely. Be at least $2500 and likely more. Please let us know.
Wayne

[AnthonyG]

Old Henry, you have indicated

I actually paid 2-3 times as much as anyone has suggested

That would be north of $6000. That amount should have bought you a completely rebuilt engine from any # of companies specializing in Flathead rebuilt engines. While I agree the amount of work you had done is significant the shop should have let you know in advance and at least given you a + or - 10 % estimate. If they had done that your decision I'm sure would have been to procure a new ( freshly rebuilt ) engine from one of these companies with a warranty. Or if you paid for the shipping would have done same for your engine. I spent $7000 on a turn key 8BA with significant polished aluminum, chrome and lot's of performance items. Not sure but as you are a Lawyer and would know better, but I'd go after them for not being "fair and reasonable" with regard to giving you the correct information with regard to price in advance so you could have made an informed decision. They should bear a part of the fee.

[BlueSunoco]

Building Flatheads sounds cheaper than doing a Model A Ford 4 banger. They run four grand right off the top and hopefully you can find someone who knows the RIGHT way to pour babbitt or else you are looking at another rebuild in a thousand miles or less. Happens all the time read the Model A side

[Chris]

Originally Posted by 28A

Scooder,

Would you suggest running a die over the tops of the studs to clean the nut threads, and a simple wire wheeling of the deck to ensure cleanliness?

Or, what else / would you suggest?

The threads are rolled threads...not cut. So if you run a standard tap or die over the threads or in the block your really gonna have a leaker

[Ronnie]

There is some good info here for the home shop. Rolled threads aren't used in holes only studs bolts and screws.
http://www.kmstools.com/blog/hand-ta...ng-techniques/

R

[ronn]

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Ol Ron-so tell me, how does a loaf of beard taste...........?

[JSeery]

Almost all of these numbers seem low to me, you guys must have some really great deals going with the mechanics. One issue I see is we are mixing apples and oranges here. Most of the price quotes were for machine work only on a carry-in carry-out engine or for machine work and assembly on a complete rebuild. This was driving a car in and having it fixed. The shop had to pull the engine, disassemble it, determine the problems and research how to fix it, get the parts, reassemble it and reinstall it. I'm sure a shop familiar with working on flatheads would be much quicker at it, but that was not the case. So, I think comparing basic machine work or the price of a rebuilt engine is not going to compare very well.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by supereal

At our shop, popular with vintage vehicles, the complete overhaul, boring, honing, valves, springs and seats, plus refitting rod and main inserts, runs in the range of $3,000 at regular rates. If the crank requires work, there is additional cost, of course, as does the labor involved in pulling and replacing the complete engine. If you can get it for less, something was likely overlooked. Our waiting list indicates we are priced correctly

BINGO! Perfectly stated!

In fact, in this area to get the job done correctly, it's in the $4000+ range.

[19Fordy]

Gosh, I recall that in 1963 I paid $5 a hole to have my flatty bored to 3 3/8"

But, I was making $1.15 an hour stocking shelves at a Grand Union super market.

[Kahuna]

I totally agree with JSeery here, regarding the mixing of apples and oranges. A price point of +/- $6k is not unreasonable at all considering the removal, repair (rebuild), and re-installation.
Here I think it would be closer to $10k

[Jeff/Illinois]

Seems like around here it runs, neighborhood, $2,500- $3,000 for a complete job, turning down crank, everything. That's what friends have told me.....

[Mike51Merc]

For labor only (I supplied all the parts) I had 8 holes bored 0.030, crank turned 0.010, rods reconditioned, two cracks pinned (and two valve seats bored and installed), cam bearings installed, 16 valve seats cut and entire short block reassembled for about $1500. The parts cost me about $1200 from different sources.

I dropped off and picked up the short block from the shop. If I had just dropped off the car and picked it up the same job could easily have been $6000.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Mike51Merc

For labor only (I supplied all the parts) I had 8 holes bored 0.030, crank turned 0.010, rods reconditioned, two cracks pinned (and two valve seats bored and installed), cam bearings installed, 16 valve seats cut and entire short block reassembled for about $1500. The parts cost me about $1200 from different sources.

I dropped off and picked up the short block from the shop. If I had just dropped off the car and picked it up the same job could easily have been $6000.

Quite reasonable.

R

[rotorwrench]

Most folks in the hobby probably do most of the work themselves like I do. I have all the labor saving devices to do everything by myself. I farm out the machine work since I don't have the required equipment for that. I take extra time to clean & restore finishes and the like that most shops don't do because I like a tidy job on my own stuff. I would have to charge a mint to do someone elses job if I did it like my own.

If you asked the average auto shop what they would charge for a flat rate on an old flathead vehicle, they wouldn't have any idea since most have never come close to one. It's fewer and farther between the shops that actually have done it enough to be able to flat rate any of the work. Shop rates down here seem to be between $75 & $85 per hour these days but some figure the parts bill up then multiply that by 2 for the labor if you can believe that. I've seen it before and that's another reason I do it all myself.

[scooder]

Originally Posted by 28A

Scooder,

Would you suggest running a die over the tops of the studs to clean the nut threads, and a simple wire wheeling of the deck to ensure cleanliness?

Or, what else / would you suggest?

Wire wheel in a drill motor, fiddly job with the studs in. Doable if your patient, small wire wheels to go round stud threads. I have done this on one that only needed no more machine work, had good studs none broke or missing. Didn't want to pull the studs if I really didn't have to.
You will probably split a few knuckles and lean some new swear words.
I have in the past cleaned the top threads of the studs with a die. Didn't cause a problem, I know it's not the best thing to do. Not the course bottom threads, just wire wheel on a bench grinder, or small wheel in a drill press running fast.
Studs out, just wire wheel in a drill motor over the deck.
Martin.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by AnthonyG

Old Henry, you have indicated
That would be north of $6000. That amount should have bought you a completely rebuilt engine from any # of companies specializing in Flathead rebuilt engines. While I agree the amount of work you had done is significant the shop should have let you know in advance and at least given you a + or - 10 % estimate. If they had done that your decision I'm sure would have been to procure a new ( freshly rebuilt ) engine from one of these companies with a warranty. Or if you paid for the shipping would have done same for your engine. I spent $7000 on a turn key 8BA with significant polished aluminum, chrome and lot's of performance items. Not sure but as you are a Lawyer and would know better, but I'd go after them for not being "fair and reasonable" with regard to giving you the correct information with regard to price in advance so you could have made an informed decision. They should bear a part of the fee.

Anthony, Many folks would disagree but lawyers are human beings too. As such, there are good and bad humans / lawyers. And, as such, there are humans / lawyers that learn from their mistakes, take the advice from those well heeled and don't make the same mistake twice, er, three times. And then there are those that don't...

[28A]

Originally Posted by Chris

The threads are rolled threads...not cut. So if you run a standard tap or die over the threads or in the block your really gonna have a leaker

Chris,

I'm talking about the threads that the nut goes on to hold the head down, i'm aware of the threads in the block being different and that you definitely shouldn't use a tap in them, rather a thread chaser.

Originally Posted by scooder

Wire wheel in a drill motor, fiddly job with the studs in. Doable if your patient, small wire wheels to go round stud threads. I have done this on one that only needed no more machine work, had good studs none broke or missing. Didn't want to pull the studs if I really didn't have to.
You will probably split a few knuckles and lean some new swear words.
I have in the past cleaned the top threads of the studs with a die. Didn't cause a problem, I know it's not the best thing to do. Not the course bottom threads, just wire wheel on a bench grinder, or small wheel in a drill press running fast.
Studs out, just wire wheel in a drill motor over the deck.
Martin.

Thanks for that info, pretty much what i was thinking. I suppose when the studs are in and the head needs a clean there isn't much else you can do about it. If you leave the studs in, is there still enough room to put new valve seats in and have them machined?

[Old Henry]

As I explained previously, I didn't ask my question to judge the reasonableness of what I'd already paid. If I cared about that I would have asked before I took it in. I was just glad to find someone willing to work on it who was recommended by a local member of the EFV8 club. The amount I paid was within the range of what I expected to pay and I was not and am not dissatisfied with it. I was just asking in case they wanted more money for redoing everything. They didn't. So, I'm good.

I drove 300 miles last night and today on a quick overnight road trip with Pepe and the engine ran smoother than it ever has. I was accidentally creeping up to 75-80 mph without even realizing it, and could still see through my mirrors (previously at those speeds I'd have just enough vibration to shake the mirrors so I couldn't see clearly through them.)

I didn't ask the garage for an estimate when I took the car in because I wasn't even sure what was wrong with the engine nor what would have to be done and knew they could not estimate without knowing. They just gave me their hourly shop rate of $85 and dug into it. The mechanic was very meticulous and maybe slower than one that had worked on flatheads all of his life but I didn't have any of those around any more. When I picked up the car and they gave me the bill I just wrote them the check, grateful to have the car on the road again.

[B-O-B]

Good news on your test drive. Now enjoy & drive the crap out it. You can't put a price on happiness or can you? Maybe some do but I don't.

[Old Henry]

Since it is fairly certain that we can't take our money with us to the other side, I'm spending mine on memories of this life that I'm pretty sure will go with me.

Likewise, having a garage full of "trailer queens" when I'm 90 wouldn't bring near the peace and happy memories as driving my one old flathead to death over and over and over again as long as I can.