When did Ford go to insert bearings?

[Jeff/Illinois]

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[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

As Special Coupe Frank indicated in another thread about babbitt bearings,, I was wondering just when did the major car mfg.'s convert over to inserts?? As far as I know, Ford was using insert bearings in their flatheads in 1936 anyway from the literature I have seen. Frank indicated that Chevy stayed w/ babbitt until 1953.

I would think for economy, inserts would have been a better way after they were developed than pouring babbitt. As head compressions were increasing they must have been more reliable too.

Just curious---- any one relate to this for me? Thanks.

Jeff,
Ford had 'full floating' inserts in '36, I'm sure. Babbitt prior, I believe.

[Kurt in NJ]

The full floating inserts for rods came with the 32 V8, but it kept the Babbitt mains till mid 36, Chevy kept babbitt rods till early 50s ---

[Special Coupe Frank]

Just for a additional info, Chrysler Corp. changed over to precision insert bearings on both rods and mains by 1935.

Chevrolet did change to "replaceable shell bearings" on the mains beginning in 1937, with the 216 cid six, but these replacement shells still had to be "align-bored" and finished to crankshaft size after installation in the block. The first full-pressure oiled insert bearing Chevy engine was the new 235 cid engine in 1954. There were previous 235 cid Chevy sixes (truck engines), but they were babbit-pounders.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

Just for a additional info, Chrysler Corp. changed over to precision insert bearings on both rods and mains by 1935.

Chevrolet did change to "replaceable shell bearings" on the mains beginning in 1937, with the 216 cid six, but these replacement shells still had to be "align-bored" and finished to crankshaft size after installation in the block. The first full-pressure oiled insert bearing Chevy engine was the new 235 cid engine in 1954. There were previous 235 cid Chevy sixes (truck engines), but they were babbit-pounders.

Frank,
Interesting! In the 'shed' somewhere, I have a NOS set of 1930 (6cyl) chev inserts. Hmm, been decades, mabe pigment of my imag,eh

[Tom Wesenberg]

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I don't know when they started, but Studebaker has inserts going way back.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

Just for a additional info, Chrysler Corp. changed over to precision insert bearings on both rods and mains by 1935.

Chevrolet did change to "replaceable shell bearings" on the mains beginning in 1937, with the 216 cid six, but these replacement shells still had to be "align-bored" and finished to crankshaft size after installation in the block. The first full-pressure oiled insert bearing Chevy engine was the new 235 cid engine in 1954. There were previous 235 cid Chevy sixes (truck engines), but they were babbit-pounders.

Frank, Chevy's all have had replaceable inserts from the start, we have sold a lot of sets for replacement. The ones we sell have to be align bored. 1917 4 Cylinders, and up to the last in 1928, all had a Brass backed babbitt center bearings, and all babbitt, Front, and Rear main. The first six in 1929, all were steel backed babbitt. Thanks Herm.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Frank, Chevy's all have had replaceable inserts from the start, we have sold a lot of sets for replacement. The ones we sell have to be align bored. 1917 4 Cylinders, and up to the last in 1928, all had a Brass backed babbitt center bearings, and all babbitt, Front, and Rear main. The first six in 1929, all were steel backed babbitt. Thanks Herm.

Herm, I did a 28 chevy a couple years ago that had replacable mains that were all babbitt, no brass. These also had the chevy bowtie on the pinning lug and the crank was at standard so, I believe they were originals.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

Herm, I did a 28 chevy a couple years ago that had replacable mains that were all babbitt, no brass. These also had the chevy bowtie on the pinning lug and the crank was at standard so, I believe they were originals.

James, are you sure you remember that right, as a solid babbitt insert in the center main, on a 1928 Chevy 4 Cylinder which is the thrust would never hold up with that thin of side thrusts, unless the block was drilled, and Peened, that is Why the brass. I don't know when Chevy started there 4 Cylinder Production, but I have done all years of Chevy, and they were all Babbitt=Brass center insert from 1917 up. There were a few later production 1928's that had all Brass=Babbitt inserts before the 1929 6's. If you replaced all the inserts in the motor, you should have saved the old ones. I Do, for reference, go take another look. The front and center do have a lug protruding out of the inserts, with the Chevy Bow Tie, on them, but the center of the block has a Brass pipe sticking out of the cast, and the Brass insert locks on to it, so the brass insert does not turn, and also that is also a oil hole to Feed the Center Main. So if there is an all Babbitt,4 Cylinder center main out there, until put my finger in its locking hole, and my hand in its, X and Y oil groves, I will not Believe. Herm.

[Frank Nemo]

1953 was the same year GM introduced their automatic transmission in their cars.

Hydramatic automatic transmissions were introduced in 1940 in Oldsmobiles and my 1941 Cadillac has a automatic Hydramatic transmission. '41 was the first year Cadillacs had an automatic trans.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

James, are you sure you remember that right, as a solid babbitt insert in the center main, on a 1928 Chevy 4 Cylinder which is the thrust would never hold up with that thin of side thrusts, unless the block was drilled, and Peened, that is Why the brass. I don't know when Chevy started there 4 Cylinder Production, but I have done all years of Chevy, and they were all Babbitt=Brass center insert from 1917 up. There were a few later production 1928's that had all Brass=Babbitt inserts before the 1929 6's. If you replaced all the inserts in the motor, you should have saved the old ones. I Do, for reference, go take another look. The front and center do have a lug protruding out of the inserts, with the Chevy Bow Tie, on them, but the center of the block has a Brass pipe sticking out of the cast, and the Brass insert locks on to it, so the brass insert does not turn, and also that is also a oil hole to Feed the Center Main. So if there is an all Babbitt,4 Cylinder center main out there, until put my finger in its locking hole, and my hand in its, X and Y oil groves, I will not Believe. Herm.

I only have one of the bearings left but, I believe it is the rear. It does have lugs but they are babbitt. I scratched them with my knife and they are definitely babbitt. The cap half has the bowtie on the casting and the block side has a number cast into it 344?34, I can't read the fourth number but it is there. I will take you some pictures if you want tomorrow.

[40 Deluxe]

A note to correct some Chevrolet misconceptions mentioned here: The 1st Powerglide came out in 1950 using the 235 babbit beater non-pressure engine. This engine came out in 1941 trucks. The 216 continued in standard trans cars through 1952. In 1953 Powerglide cars went to a full pressure 235 with insert rods and standard trans cars got this engine in 1954. All '37-'54 216 & 235's used insert mains that were shim adjusted. I don't remember when the mains changed to precision slip-in inserts, but Chevy was very late to the party compared to Ford. Also, Chevy engineers didn't discover aluminum pistons until '53 either, as all the babbit beaters had cast iron pistons!

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

I only have one of the bearings left but, I believe it is the rear. It does have lugs but they are babbitt. I scratched them with my knife and they are definitely babbitt. The cap half has the bowtie on the casting and the block side has a number cast into it 344?34, I can't read the fourth number but it is there. I will take you some pictures if you want tomorrow.

You don't have to waste your time James, I have alot of original rears, and fronts, it's the brass center we are talking about, and I have some of those also. Herm.