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Old 09-14-2014, 11:21 AM   #1
malpais
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Default Help with painting - still practicing

Painted my Ford 250 hi-boy farm truck yesterday - practicing before painting the 39 PU.

I don't have a good clean place to do this, so it ended up pretty gritty.

Used PPG urethane single stage - wondering when I can sand and recoat?

I'm also wondering - some areas where I filled with very thin "bondo" (I know, but I ain't that good with metal work) sort of look different, like they absorbed more of the paint. Should I have used a sealer of some type?

Undercoat was a two part urethane primer - several coats in most places.

I hate body work, but this is why I'm practicing.

Thanks, Gordon

Thanks, Gordon
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Old 09-14-2014, 11:41 AM   #2
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

I'm not a pro and someone else here, that is, will give you a better answer.

Here is what I did.

Removed old paint and used ospho on bare metal for an etcher.
Sprayed a Epoxy sealer. (7 day window for respray)
Did bondo were needed, scuffed with a pad, and another couple coats of Epoxy sealer.
Then 3 coats of single stage.
I didn't do a lot of color sanding after the single stage.

Where you bought the paint should have a sheet on the paint you have and all its specs on when you can sand or respray.

I'm not a fan of doing body work either. Much respect for those that do it well.
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Old 09-14-2014, 12:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Go to www.autobodystore.com and research on their forum for both metal repair and painting. A wealth of info. Very helpful.
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Old 09-14-2014, 12:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

If you used PPG's DCC single stage, you can sand and re coat in 6 hours.
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Old 09-14-2014, 12:11 PM   #5
19Fordy
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Gordon, But by far, the most important thing when choosing a paint is this: You must use a paint system when you paint your car. That is all of the material, primers, sealers, surfacers, base coats, clear coats, reducers, thinners, hardeners, etc. must all be of the same manufacturer and compatible with each other. This is why you need to consult with a paint supplier as to what is right is right for your car. This is why you can't primer your car with Autozone's sandable auto primer (on sale for $1.99 a can!!) and spray it with a brand auto paint you haven't decided upon yet. So, if you are using PPG color coat be sure and ask your paint vendor what other PPG products you need to do the job correctly. Usually you will :
1. first do your metal and body work, 2. apply epoxy primer 3. apply primer surfacer 4. apply sealer. 5. apply top coat. Follow the directions on each can. If you don't apply sealer
your body work will absorb your color coat and bleed through.
PS: I got his info off the internet and have found it to be true when I painted the car in my avatar with single stage urethane + hardener in 1988.

Last edited by 19Fordy; 09-14-2014 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 09-14-2014, 05:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

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Don't forget to use a "fisheye" preventer. Most old cars have lots of silicone embedded in the paint from waxing and/or that old devil "Armorall". We always paint each part separately, fenders, doors, hood, trunk lid, etc. That way, if we missed anything, we don't have to repaint the whole vehicle. Too often, problems lurk in the joints between parts. It takes a lot of time to remove these things, but so does removing flawed coatings.
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Thanks all for the replys.

As usual, lots of good info.

I have read some of the info on the net and will re-read per your recomendations.

All products I used are PPG and according to Product Data Sheets.

Was just unclear on the difference between adding a 2nd and 3rd coat vs repainting.

Seems you can re-coat for a few hours without sanding down, but after that its like a new paint job - all gloss must be removed?

Not clear if my urethane "primer" should have sealed the bondo'd areas?

I'm not clear on process/preparation between color coats.

Have learned a lot from this "practice":

Area wasn't clean enough.

EVERYTHING shows thru the paint. (remembered this from attempts when I was young).

Need better light to get "right" application - not too dry or too heavy but gotta see the surface well when spraying!

Thanks all!

Gordon
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
But by far, the most important thing when choosing a paint is this: You must use a paint system when you paint your car. That is all of the material, primers, sealers, surfacers, base coats, clear coats, reducers, thinners, hardeners, etc. must all be of the same manufacturer and compatible with each other. This is why you need to consult with a paint supplier as to what is right is right for your car.
I don't think Southern Polyurethane Inc. where I bought my primer would agree with you on that. They sell primers and clears but not topcoat.

Last edited by mrtexas; 09-14-2014 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 09-14-2014, 07:28 PM   #9
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Quote:
Originally Posted by malpais View Post
Thanks all for the replys.

As usual, lots of good info.

I have read some of the info on the net and will re-read per your recomendations.

All products I used are PPG and according to Product Data Sheets.

Was just unclear on the difference between adding a 2nd and 3rd coat vs repainting.

Seems you can re-coat for a few hours without sanding down, but after that its like a new paint job - all gloss must be removed?

Not clear if my urethane "primer" should have sealed the bondo'd areas?

I'm not clear on process/preparation between color coats.

Have learned a lot from this "practice":

Area wasn't clean enough.

EVERYTHING shows thru the paint. (remembered this from attempts when I was young).

Need better light to get "right" application - not too dry or too heavy but gotta see the surface well when spraying!

Thanks all!

Gordon
You need to put on at least 3 heavy coats of topcoat so you can color sand and not go thru. If you don't put enough paint on the various panels may not match in color as the primer may still be influencing the final color. Follow the directions on your paint can. I painted in my back yard and was able to sand out all the bugs and dirt easily.

Your epoxy primer and then the urethane primer should have sealed the bondo. Most recommend putting a sealer of thinned down epoxy over the 2k primer before topcoat.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Sounds like you may not have put on enough primer over the body filler as it will absorb the primer. A sealer would be used before spraying the color coat if there are old layers of paint and bodywork you don't want to react with the final color or you have some bare metal spots after sanding the primer and don't want to go back and touch up each spot.
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Old 09-15-2014, 11:59 AM   #11
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing sinking feeling

Thanks again for the answers/explanations.

Got that sinking feeling reading them though!

The PPG jobber here in town is good, but he makes the assumption I know what the heck I'm doing and asking for.......bad assumption.

I thought I was following the Tech Data Sheets, but had it screwed up to some extent. Read somewhere not to put paint over etching primer, but missed the fact you need PRIMER over etching primer. Would be no point of etching primer if ya can't get paint over it somehow!

I used some primer surfacer as "primer" on some bare metal. This old hi-boy doesn't matter (was mostly a recoat over older paint), but want to get the '39 right.

The '39 did have etching primer on the bead-blasted surface, but I sanded a lot off and put on primer surfacer. Duh!

Back to sanding - a lot -and redoing.

I'm old enuf to be more careful. Everything I've used is two part, but I'm getting epoxy, acrylic, urethane, acrylic enamel, acrylic urethane, primer, etching primer, sealer, primer surfacer mixed up.

Learning though!

Gordon
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:09 PM   #12
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Urethane is very dangerous stuff - hope you are using proper equipment to protect your health. (Lots of internet postings and articles detail the danger)
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Old 09-15-2014, 05:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Every time I go the the PPG store I just act dumb, which is not hard, and have them answer my questions. Get as much info from those guys and gals as you can. By the way you went with a single stage paint but which one? They offer several and vary in price. I've learned that the higher priced ones are better to work with and have a better results. Of course Earl Schieb will paint any car any color for only $29.95. I did have a 53 Ford painted there and it turned out fine.
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Old 09-15-2014, 09:31 PM   #14
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

You are learning a new skill by asking the jobber, reading the P sheets and asking us many questions. This is good.
Quality metal work and painting rarely go as planned. The test of a craftsman is if he can figure out how to solve the problems.
Look at your painted over fill areas closely and try to determine if you see sand scratches and/or pin holes in the filler. Those are the usual flaws to find and fix even before priming if possible.
One last thing I'd like to suggest is that you number your questions so we can answer them specifically.
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Old 09-15-2014, 11:19 PM   #15
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Why not just take an old fender or hood and "practice" on that until you get to know the materials better and along the way, develop some skills. A lot easier and cheaper than doing a whole vehicle.
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

One piece at a time, old girl is turning cream colored.......Thanks for the help!

Cab and doors soon......

Gordon
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 39 fenders and panel cream.jpg (50.0 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg 39 cream hood.jpg (46.2 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 39 header cream.jpg (34.8 KB, 23 views)
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Nice.
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Barnfind,

By the way, thanks for the safety tip. Wearing good gear and painting in the open. Bad for dust - better for me.

Do wish I had an air - supplied mask.

Gordon
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Old 09-21-2014, 10:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

Malpais
Check penny savers, swap meets, garage sales, etc for used CPAP machines.
Medicare buys millions a year, and people don't like sleeping with them.
With a long hose makes good supplied air.
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Old 09-22-2014, 12:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: Help with painting - still practicing

I've used a little bit of the PPG concept urethane and it's a lot like the old Deltron that PPG used to market. It's one of the most forgiving urethanes for the beginner. It has to dry a couple of days to get a good dry sand with 400 on the surface. I hate wet sanding but you can do that as long as you clean it back up well. Cleanliness is the key to smooth paint. You just can't clean things too much.

If you have part of the work turn out well but one part it rough or has runs/sags. Just tape off at a good location and fix the bad parts seperately. Frames won't stay looking new very long anyway if you drive the vehicle a lot. Fenders, decklids, hoods, and bodies are a different story but at least they are separate parts and you can fix the one that have blemishes. on the old bodies & cabs, there are a few break lines that can be taken advantage of for repair work on separate panels.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 09-22-2014 at 12:21 PM.
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