'steering box'

[highbeams]

The typical steering box = a worm gear and a two-tooth sector gear, as we all know. Seems 'Sloppy' steering defers to the box (and drag link/pitman arm.)

My question regarding the steering box: the worm gear and sector gear is not a high-speed function. What causes the two steel gears to wear to the point that the Ford is frustratingly not drivable, or not enjoyably drivable.
(particularly, if the box is 'full of', half-full, quarter-full of lubricant!)

Thank you if you've some info regarding this -

(And not-to-forget tie rod ends, but we do . . . or I do/. . . did till lately.)

[rotorwrench]

The sector roller lasts longer than the worm as a general rule due to constant movement on the roller gear. The worms take a lot of stress and tend to pit and spall as the surface breaks down. Most of the worm wear is right in the center where it sets most of the time.

The older 2-tooth sector gears wear faster than the roller type sector.

[DavidG]

Two-tooth sector gears became history when the last Model A rolled off an assembly line in Ford's world. The '32-'36 sector gears all had three teeth.

[highbeams]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Two-tooth sector gears became history when the last Model A rolled off an assembly line in Ford's world. The '32-'36 sector gears all had three teeth.

Thanks for that, David G. Years back, a good friend 'better'd his '36 box with '39 gubbins. He was verrry knowledgeable. Had his first V8 in 1957, a '35 coupe.

My '36 half-ton was a realll bear to parallel park; i.e., on the wheel, the left hand at the 10:00 o'clock position, the right hand at the 2:00 o'clock position . . . PULL! Similarly, the right hand at the 10:00 o'clock position, the left hand at the 2:00 o'clock position . . . PULL!

The truck was actually rocking when doing this. Apparently, the three-tooth sector has/had no steering benefit; the same reluctance as its two-tooth'd prior 'generation'.

Further comment welcomed.

[highbeams]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The sector roller lasts longer than the worm as a general rule due to constant movement on the roller gear. The worms take a lot of stress and tend to pit and spall as the surface breaks down. Most of the worm wear is right in the center where it sets most of the time.

The older 2-tooth sector gears wear faster than the roller type sector.

Thank you Rotowrench. And Ford was not in a hurry to improve the box till '39? Am I correct?

I can't imagine why the public did not inundate Ford with complaints.

Further comment(s) welcome.

[cas3]

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people today need seat warmers and power steering. When you got rid of your horse and buggy, the model T steered just fine with planetary gears in the column, sorry , I forget the ratio, but like a go cart. The model A came in with 11 to 1 steering ratio, the 32's had 13 to 1, and 33-34 bumped up to 15 to 1, and finally with the advent of the rolling sector in 37 it went to 17 to 1. adequate for the time, and for me too, but in case you have not noticed people today are lazy

[highbeams]

Originally Posted by cas3

people today need seat warmers and power steering. When you got rid of your horse and buggy, the model T steered just fine with planetary gears in the column, sorry , I forget the ratio, but like a go cart. The model A came in with 11 to 1 steering ratio, the 32's had 13 to 1, and 33-34 bumped up to 15 to 1, and finally with the advent of the rolling sector in 37 it went to 17 to 1. adequate for the time, and for me too, but in case you have not noticed people today are lazy

Oh, call me crazy, call me lazy, but an early Ford w/a '39 box would be a dream, as opposed to my current '33 nightmare, it would seem . . . a song to sing while driving.

The T and A lighter front ends and 'skinny' tires I'd bet were quite helpful. I had a '30 5w coupe 50 yrs ago; I know that I didn't object to the steering.

Replies and comments welcomed.

[cas3]

Its not the weight of the car, or the skinny tires. its the ratio of the engineering. Ever notice the model A with 11 to 1 will not self center after a turn, you turn it back or wind up in the ditch. Your 33 may have a 13 to 1 box in it. It was sometime in the 33-34 model 40 era that it was improved to the 15 to 1 ratio, not sure when the change occurred, ...David G ? Even that was a good improvement, not quite as much as the later 17 to 1 with a rolling sector, but still better. The hot ticket today is a 37 hudson box , 17 to 1 with a rolling sector, bolts in with your sector housing, but try to find one

[deuce lover]

Flathead Ted in NZ makes a 17-1 exact replacement for the 32-34 in LHD and RHD. The wait is long.

[Charlie ny]

Big improvement in '35 with cross steering better yet in '37 with the roller sector.
Henry did up grade between '35 and '36 with needle bearings.

On my spoiled rotten '32 p/u I've discovered the importance of tire width and wheel offset on issues concerning the front end. As purchased the '49 Merc rims and semi modern radials decided where the the truck was going to go.
Charlie ny

[cas3]

I think the needle bearings in the 36 sector shaft was a good Idea on paper, but did not work so well in use. Bearing need to move more and so they would tend to wear in the shaft where the steering was centered, as in driving down a straight road most of its life. Motorcycles tend to do the same thing in the headset bearings, wear in the straight ahead position .

[1948F-1Pickup]

Sector shafts riding on needle bearings are always not only prone to wear on the shaft but also you're dealing with play from day 1 that does not exist with a sector shaft rotating inside a properly honed bushing pressed into the case.

[rich b]

F-1 box with new insides work good; but require a few changes. Neal makes new Hudson like boxes.

[Mike34]

Originally Posted by rich b

F-1 box with new insides work good; but require a few changes. Neal makes new Hudson like boxes.

Neal? How do you reach him? Thanks.

[rich b]

Originally Posted by Mike34

Neal? How do you reach him? Thanks.

Neal Jennings
nhrp32 in instagram
NealinCA on the hamb
Neal's Hot Rod Parts
[email protected]

[FlatheadTed]

Watch my web site for when production starts again .

[Mike34]

Ted - In our last e-mail exchange (16 Dec 2021), you said that you were retiring and not going to build boxes for USA "customers" anymore.

So am I on the top of your wait list? As you saw in the photos that I send, I have all of the necessary parts ready to ship to you.

Regards,
-Mike Brown

[john greco]

Wow Ted , I have emails going back 4 years you telling me over and over my two boxes were in production , I was super patient hearing that you were the guy and it felt like power steering , the last email I got from you was you were retired and will no longer ship to the USA , I was floored after waiting as long as I did , and now your going back in production ??? Does that exclude the USA? And if not will I ever get my to boxes ?

[FlatheadTed]

John we have a 34 box ready ,you have been patient alright , i thought by your last response maybe interest has wained , I spent years developing these boxs so do intend to send some . or my son will . We have had Covid locked downs on and of over the last two years .disrupsion to the post ,shortages of steel .etc i thought i kept you informed , Ted

[Andy]

I think the 47 and later Chevy pick up box may be a better idea. They are the recirculating ball design. I picked one up out of the dirt at a yard. There was no play and it turned as smooth as anything I have messed with. They used them for along time. The pick up was a test by GM. Cadillac was the next and then the rest of GM got them.
They look just like a 56 F100 box.
Think a heavy duty Vega side steer.