Why was Henry against the Inline 6?

[roccaas]

I just found this on Wikipedia, so take it for what it is worth, but if true, it might explain Henry's aversion to the 6...

"Ford's first straight-6 engine was introduced in 1906 in the Model K. Production ended in 1907. Henry Ford did not like this car, which could overpower its transmission."

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

Tom,

I had no idea that IHC ever used engines from American Motors...

Aside from Studebaker's corporate maladies, the other big issue was their susceptibility to rust...

My Dad had a '49 Studebaker 1/2-ton pick-up back before I was born... my older cousins and Uncles all talk about "how nice the body was"... sure wish Dad had kept that one !

One thing that was really neat on this style of Studebaker pickups is how easy it was to work on the dash wiring. It was fully exposed by just lifting the hood. This was also a good idea because if there was ever an electrical fire it was completely under the hood, not in the passenger compartment.

[montanajohn]

Another example of HF's bull-headedness was the location of the distributor mounted low on the front of the block, driven by the camshaft. I had a 1940 sedan, and can verify that the distributor was a bugger to wqrk on, and worse, it would get drenched from splashing through puddles of water. One solution was to replace the original cap with a "pancake" cap from a '48, and dob it generously with silicon sealer. I think it was with the '49 model that the distributor was finally moved up on top of the engine.

[amodel25]

I've got a flathead six with some era speed equipment in a '51 tudor. I sure would like to show Henry how quickly it will pass up one of his flathead V8's (stock ones of course).

[ctlikon0712]

Tom, which AMC engine was offered in the Scout? AMC had good performing engines as the AMX's proved. If I’m not mistaken they offered a 290, 304, 343, 360, 390, and a 401 respectively. Oh I just checked it out and it was a 266 and later a 304, possibly the AMC version?

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

My dad had a new flathead 6 tudor in 1949, it was rated at 95 hp wheras the v-8 was 100hp. It was very peppy smooth and dependable and gave many years of trouble free service.

[dave in australia]

As were talking sixes, the best six I have driven was a hemi, by Chrysler Australia. Although it was not a true hemi, they owned the name and used it to advertise their new six. The Australian Charger with a triple weber fed hemi six was a formidable beast on the race track, ask any Kiwi about Leo Leonard during his reign during the seventies. He embarrassed a few Ford 351 powered race cars, as well as anything by GM.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by ctlikon0712

Tom, which AMC engine was offered in the Scout? AMC had good performing engines as the AMX's proved. If I’m not mistaken they offered a 290, 304, 343, 360, 390, and a 401 respectively. Oh I just checked it out and it was a 266 and later a 304, possibly the AMC version?

My 1971 Scout has the AMC 232 inline 6. I don't know if the longer stroke AMC 250 was offered or not.

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

... After AMC finally retired the Nash engine, they replaced it with the 232 & 258 cid sixes, which lived-on into the early 2000's as the 4.0 litre Jeep six...

Hey, I had one of those, and there's hardly a day goes by that I don't kick myself for taking $100 for it on a trade-in for a 1970 Dodge Dart, for which its slant six was the only decent part.

In 1965, I put my Model A away in Grandma's garage for its long sleep and purchased a brand new Rambler American (aka, the Golden Beast). That 232 7-main bearing six was a real sleeper. It was super smooth and could beat the small Chevy and Ford V8's (283 & 289) off the line. But, I was bummed that its top end was only 95 mph, and I wrote a few indignant letters to the authorities. However, with sufficiently abusive technique, it did have enough power to tear up the Borg-Warner automatic trans it was coupled with; I needed four trans rebuilds in its 97k life. (A Ford friend had showed me how you could lock it into 2nd gear by dropping the shift lever into low after punching it into passing gear above 60 mph). As my dad used to tell me, "For someone who's supposed to be so smart, you sure do some dumb things."

Here we are when brand new. Twenty two years later I retrieved my Ford from Grandma's garage and finally gave one of my cars the care it deserved.



When cropping that photo, I realized that my mom seemed to always have the same pose when considering me and my cars.



Thanks for letting an old man share.

Steve

[Purdy Swoft]

Nice pictures Steve. Your mention of locking the transmission in second gear reminds me of the 1957 Ford convertable that I had in 68. I could hit passing gear, pull the shift lever down in the low gear position and it would hold the fordamatic in second gear. I could wind second gear out to ninety mph or better. I think of that car often and wish that I still had it.

[400A-64]

I had a 1942 Ford Coupe,before black-out of chrome...it was a FH 6...I guess no one told Henry?? Not a bad car.
Bruce Davis [email protected]

[CarlG]

My Dad had a '50 with a flathead 6. He still talks about what a great motor that car had. At the same time he had a '52 flathead V8 that he thought the engine was a pile of junk.

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Nice pictures Steve. Your mention of locking the transmission in second gear reminds me of the 1957 Ford convertable that I had in 68. I could hit passing gear, pull the shift lever down in the low gear position and it would hold the fordamatic in second gear. I could wind second gear out to ninety mph or better. I think of that car often and wish that I still had it.

Yep, Purdy, that's exactly how it worked. My education was as one of a gang of 7 boys crammed into a 56 Ford on a gravel road in Ohio with the driver showing us the technique for winding his Fordomatic V8 out to 90 mph in 2nd gear--exciting but dumb. My understanding is that the same basic trans was in my Rambler. Lucky to still be alive.

Steve

[Purdy Swoft]

Steve, You are right. We are lucky. Couldn't do the same things now, Too many cars on the road, more police and not many dirt roads left in my area. The memories are still fun to think about.

[t-head]

Many have mentioned the Model K problems which were many. The biggest one was broken crankshafts, first in his 6-cyl. racers and probably also in the K. Inline sixes suffer from torsional vibration problems which breaks crankshafts and also causes timing gear/chain and camshaft and valve timing problems.

Sixes really were not "tamed" until the vibration dampener was fitted to them. The first I am aware of in the US was Locomobile but there may have been others.

[Art Bjornestad]

I have heard that the road between Los Angeles and Las Vegas was paved with Chevy 6 connecting rods.

[steve s]

I was just reading in Henry's Fabulous Model A Ford by Leslie Henry the story about this (p. 18):

"But Model K's impact on the Ford Company was deep and lasting because of its effect on Henry Ford. It turned him with certainty to producing one small, simple, low-priced car for the masses, and it turned him irrevocably from building a six cylinder car as long as he dominated the company. Indeed, when Henry Ford finally abandoned the four cylinder engine for his cars he went directly to his revolutionary en bloc V-8 engine. He agreed with Harry Miller, Indianapolis race car builder, who said, "there's no excuse for a six; it has all the engineering difficulties of an eight with none of its advantages.""

There is not much discussion of exactly what the problem was with the "enormous six cylinder Model K," other than it cost $2800 (in 1906-08) and woefully overpowered the 2 speed planetary transmission.

Later, the book describes the X-8 engine that Henry had conceived of as his first choice for the Model T four replacement--didn't work out so well. During this same time, there was also experimentation with both straight and V six cylinder engines: "But Mr. Ford frowned on lengthening his Model T chassis, believing it not quite adequate for the increased weight and increased power of the straight six engine." (p. 23)

Steve

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by steve s

I was just reading in Henry's Fabulous Model A Ford by Leslie Henry the story about this (p. 18):

"But Model K's impact on the Ford Company was deep and lasting because of its effect on Henry Ford. It turned him with certainty to producing one small, simple, low-priced car for the masses, and it turned him irrevocably from building a six cylinder car as long as he dominated the company. Indeed, when Henry Ford finally abandoned the four cylinder engine for his cars he went directly to his revolutionary en bloc V-8 engine. He agreed with Harry Miller, Indianapolis race car builder, who said, "there's no excuse for a six; it has all the engineering difficulties of an eight with none of its advantages.""

There is not much discussion of exactly what the problem was with the "enormous six cylinder Model K," other than it cost $2800 (in 1906-08) and woefully overpowered the 2 speed planetary transmission.

Later, the book describes the X-8 engine that Henry had conceived of as his first choice for the Model T four replacement--didn't work out so well. During this same time, there was also experimentation with both straight and V six cylinder engines: "But Mr. Ford frowned on lengthening his Model T chassis, believing it not quite adequate for the increased weight and increased power of the straight six engine." (p. 23)

Steve

The only thing I have to question is.
"there's no excuse for a six; it has all the engineering difficulties of an eight with none of its advantages."

Correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't the inline six inherently balanced with no need for external balancing?

[eagle]

I saw a model K at Broadhead WI a few years ago. According to the owner, the biggest problem was the light engine block, if I remember right it was aluminum, was solid mounted onto the frame. When you would park on nonlevel ground, the twist on the frame would twist the engine block and seize up the engine. The only way to be able to turn the engine over to start it was to jack up the low wheel until the twist came out of the engine block. He had a crank there for us to look at too. It wasn't hard to understand why they broke. It was about 3 feet+ long and very lightly built.

[roccaas]

Originally Posted by MrTube

The only thing I have to question is.
"there's no excuse for a six; it has all the engineering difficulties of an eight with none of its advantages."

Correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't the inline six inherently balanced with no need for external balancing?

I have a question about this. I've always heard about the multiples of inline 6's being inheriently smooth (I-6, I-12, V-12), but I've also seen info/opinions that it is a product of multiples of 3. Are these micro car's with I-3's smooth based on this principal, and we only heard about I-6's because nobody made 3's until recently?