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Old 10-26-2015, 09:10 PM   #41
denis4x4
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

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Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank View Post
They were $50 each 15 years ago when I needed them for my '41 De Soto...

I guess the Ford guys are lucky then.

Who has 'em for $35 ?
Just bought some from for my A roadster at NAPA for $20 each
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Old 10-27-2015, 12:05 AM   #42
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

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"Thanks for everyones reply. I posted the original question because every now and then someone mentions putting juice brakes on a STOCK Model A. I've always thought the brakes Henry put on A's that are properly rebuilt, work just fine."

There are also those folks who don't / "can't" leave anything exactly the way the factory built it...

( I wonder what percentage of Harley's stay exactly the way they left the factory...? )

I would add a small qualifying statement to: "Stock brakes are just fine on a Model A" - a STOCK Model A...

If someone goes and substantially boosts the HP of their "banger" or re-powers the car with a hotter engine, then the Model A brakes may no longer be adequate.

My personal opinion is, that unless you're building a "heritage rod", and need to stay "old-school" with the Lockheed Juice brakes, if you really need hydraulic brakes, there are better hydraulic brake designs out there.

Chrysler Corp. finally gave up on Lockheed-derived brakes after the 1962 full-size cars. From then on, they used Bendix brakes. The "new" compact MoPars used Bendix brakes from day one, 1960 ( just like the Falcon & Comet).
Why does a hotter engine make a difference? Stopping from 55 with a stock engine does not differ from stopping from 55 with a more powerful engine. If you are driving faster with the rudimentary Model A steering and suspension, may the Lord be with you.

IMHO unless you go for cast iron drums and Ted's floaters with properly arced shoes you are not experiencing the best of Model A mechanical brakes.

Too bad you cannot fit a set of four disk brakes from a MK II or E-type Jaguar to a Model A. These were the best ever!
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Old 10-27-2015, 12:53 AM   #43
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

The mechanical brake dudes sure got a shock when I let them drive my 28 plymouth. They almost busted their nose on the windscreen when stopping.
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Old 10-27-2015, 06:18 AM   #44
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

I know it is an old thread but I think it is worth mentioning that juice brakes do suffer from corrosion due to long term storage and environmental conditions. Some antique cars tend to sit for a relative long period of time.

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Old 10-27-2015, 08:56 AM   #45
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

When you have 60 HP at the rear wheels with 1931 A running gear, hydraulic brakes help. Too, when you drive them a lot they don't present any problems.
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Old 10-27-2015, 10:02 AM   #46
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

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Brake shoes are mechanical --regardless of the method of applying force...
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Old 10-27-2015, 02:00 PM   #47
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

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Brake shoes are mechanical --regardless of the method of applying force...
And hydraulics are a better means of applying force.
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Old 10-27-2015, 02:44 PM   #48
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

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I know it is an old thread but I think it is worth mentioning that juice brakes do suffer from corrosion due to long term storage and environmental conditions. Some antique cars tend to sit for a relative long period of time.

Pete
That is true, that was a primary reason for buying a model A for me.
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:47 AM   #49
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

On my Phaeton,I was looking into swapping out the mechanicals for juice brakes.The car is set up at as a pre WW2 era dry lakes car,so doing so would throw the whole look/feel of it.After doing some research,I had decided on a kit from Klings and was ready to purchase it.A friend of mine had bought a semi restored Roadster that he was turning into a hot rod.He gave me all of the mechanical brakes,drums/hubs,everything except new rods.With everything in alot better shape than mine,I spent a weekend swapping them in and giving them a proper adjusting..WOW,what a difference!Needless to say I will be sticking with the mechanicals...
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Old 10-29-2015, 07:57 AM   #50
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

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On my Phaeton,I was looking into swapping out the mechanicals for juice brakes.The car is set up at as a pre WW2 era dry lakes car,so doing so would throw the whole look/feel of it.After doing some research,I had decided on a kit from Klings and was ready to purchase it.A friend of mine had bought a semi restored Roadster that he was turning into a hot rod.He gave me all of the mechanical brakes,drums/hubs,everything except new rods.With everything in alot better shape than mine,I spent a weekend swapping them in and giving them a proper adjusting..WOW,what a difference!Needless to say I will be sticking with the mechanicals...
Have you been to the TROG? If you haven't, this is a great car for that race.

Keep 4-banging!
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:41 AM   #51
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

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Have you been to the TROG? If you haven't, this is a great car for that race.

Keep 4-banging!
I haven't been to the New Jersey races.I'm holding out in hopes of a West Coast Race in the future..
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Old 10-29-2015, 11:00 AM   #52
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

Love your Tub Brujo. Some of us West coasters need to put together a race or even a Banger meet or something
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Old 10-29-2015, 11:20 AM   #53
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

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Love your Tub Brujo. Some of us West coasters need to put together a race or even a Banger meet or something
I think there would plenty of interest in a West Coast version,but maybe our California enviromental laws and ocean conservation puts a stop to it..Damn Hippy legislation

As far as Banger meets,F.A.S.T. has a couple of events per year.The Auburn Hill Climb in Sept/Oct and the Banger Drags at Santa Margarita Ranch in May/June..
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Old 10-29-2015, 12:07 PM   #54
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

I keep missing the Auburn meet due too other commitments. This year I vow to make it, probably put stock wheels back on my coupe for the race, so I can be competitive . Maybe a beach in Oregon? I'm not sure about their "greeny" laws. I know you can drive on Clam Beach in Humboldt County just north of Arcata. Its a LONG beach too. It might be an option?
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:29 PM   #55
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

I guess I can add my 2 cents for what its worth.
I see a post about too much HP at the rear wheels that it is a problem for the mechanical braking.
This is just from my experience and that is if you go through every detail of the mechanical brakes and a must that you install cast iron drums with the soft woven lining, the car will lock all for wheels with not a lot of pedal pressure and you can almost let go of the steering wheel.
I don't know what my HP I have at the rear wheels the engine dyno was close to 100 HP and 175 Ft lb. torque so I would guess 15% to 20% less and the rear wheels, but that is not a problem of stopping the wheels from locking up, it is the skinny tires, if your traveling 65 or 70 miles per hour! and any quick steering maneuver things can get hairy real quick. There simply is not enough rubber contact on the road with the narrow tires. At normal speeds in town or say 45 to 55 there great.
The mechanical brakes are great for me I love them there no trouble if the car sits too long, easy to adjust and repair and simple.
Just my opinion for what its worth.
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Old 10-30-2015, 07:34 AM   #56
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

Bill Stipe said:
"I see a post about too much HP at the rear wheels that it is a problem for the mechanical braking."

My tongue was deeply in my cheek when I posted that.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:11 AM   #57
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

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Originally Posted by denis4x4 View Post
Bill Stipe said:
"I see a post about too much HP at the rear wheels that it is a problem for the mechanical braking."

My tongue was deeply in my cheek when I posted that.
I'm sorry I didn't read that close enough, you didn't said it was too much HP for the mechanical brakes just that juice brake help.

I did try juice brakes when I was just out of High School on the one posted on my avatar and just could not get them right. I had 46 ford rear axle and 41 ford front backing plates and brake drums. it would always pull me in the ditch on the first hard brake and if I pumped them then apply they were better. I had the drums turned, new shoes arced all new wheel cylinders and master. the master was under the floor like the 41. I think I just could not get all the air out would be my guess. didn't know any one with power bleeder at the time that may have helped.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:20 AM   #58
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

My own experience with both mechanicals and hydraulics is that I favor mechanicals. Besides, the real stopping power is in the drum and shoe contact. How big? What materials? Equalization? Not the actualization method. I was so happy when my first model A (Town Sedan) had hydraulic brakes installed until I found out exactly what that entails, Rusted lines, stuck cylinders, fluid levels, bad MCs, etc. All the things that one doesn't encounter with mechanicals.
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Old 10-30-2015, 09:17 AM   #59
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Smile Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

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Originally Posted by Bill Stipe View Post
I guess I can add my 2 cents for what its worth.
I see a post about too much HP at the rear wheels that it is a problem for the mechanical braking.
This is just from my experience and that is if you go through every detail of the mechanical brakes and a must that you install cast iron drums with the soft woven lining, the car will lock all for wheels with not a lot of pedal pressure and you can almost let go of the steering wheel.
I don't know what my HP I have at the rear wheels the engine dyno was close to 100 HP and 175 Ft lb. torque so I would guess 15% to 20% less and the rear wheels, but that is not a problem of stopping the wheels from locking up, it is the skinny tires, if your traveling 65 or 70 miles per hour! and any quick steering maneuver things can get hairy real quick. There simply is not enough rubber contact on the road with the narrow tires. At normal speeds in town or say 45 to 55 there great.
The mechanical brakes are great for me I love them there no trouble if the car sits too long, easy to adjust and repair and simple.

Just my opinion for what its worth.
I could not agree more. But I do think narrow tires are better in deep snow.
You must not have the chev head on that car if you only have a 100 hp
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Old 10-30-2015, 11:13 AM   #60
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Default Re: Mechanical vs. Juice brakes on an A

my model A fordor was bought in 76 has sat from that time. i got it up and running. have not touched the brakes yet. and they will lock on gravel and will put an unsuspecting passenger into the dash if you catch them off gaurd. as long as it has the original drive train i will stick with the mechanicals.
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