The Ford Barn

Talkwrench · 10-12-2014, 07:30 PM

Since I have the diff out for a rebuild thought I would go through the trans as well started out easy enough however I cant withdraw it backwards more than 1/2" or so as the mounting "ears" get pushed back into the V of the frame, seems the hole thing has to be lifted a good 2" to pass over the frame. Logically I thought I have to lift the motor and all to do it, however I cant get it up that high as the exhaust is already hitting the frame.. Is this all normal or am I missing something?? The back end of the trans was starting to lift but I felt this was wrong, it must come out straight surely.
Its my 35 pickup, with a 39 box ..

Ken/Alabama · 10-12-2014, 07:41 PM

Jack up the rear of the engine as far as it will go.

bobH · 10-12-2014, 07:46 PM

Don't know about 35's, but in my later model, a 47, the rear mount of the trans must be removed from the trans, while the trans is in place. Then the trans can move rearward enough.
JMO

Fibber Mcgee · 10-12-2014, 08:02 PM

On my 41 the back of the transmission does have to come up and then back . Is it the exhaust or exhaust manifold hitting? Maybe the exhaust was installed to close to the frame.

Talkwrench · 10-12-2014, 08:19 PM

Its just the exhaust , and its positioned quite well in the middle [through the frame]. It would now mean I would have to undo the manifold, normal?
The rear mount from what I can see would be difficult to remove as the bolts that go through it would still not allow it come off! .. I did take pictures [with my ] but I left my phone at home today ..Doh! ..
I feel if I just lift the back of the trans its just not the right thing to do , surely its putting stress on the parts up front and it wont go back in that easy ..?
If jacking up is the answer, its quiet a bit to come up..pfft! Henry ...why..??!!

Old Col · 10-12-2014, 09:06 PM

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Hiya, '37 and up will come out that way fairly easily, but as you've discovered the "ears" on the trans clog up the works in '35/6. Generally it's easier to pull the out engine and trans as an assembly in the usual way,then remove the trans and deal with whatever dramas you have. Also by doing it that way ,if you're replacing the clutch assembly and need to resurface the flywheel ( and it often needs it when the clutch is worn) then it's a simple deal to remove the oilpan to get at it.
But back to your issue....if you remove the universal joint and then remove the mounting retainer bolts, you may be able to squeeze the mount assembly past the trans,freeing up the space you need to move the trans rearwards.....maybe. You might have to rotate the mount half a turn for clearance, and angle it back at the top to get it out. It is probably a good move to undo the manifold flange nuts so you can jack up the engine, better than breaking something through stressing the parts, good luck!

TonyM · 10-12-2014, 09:20 PM

Yes, just jack up the rear of the engine and the trans with mount will come out real easy.

Talkwrench · 10-12-2014, 09:21 PM

Thanks Col, I'll have to have a good look at those mounting retainer bolts I just couldn't see how they come out , they seemed to be part of the gearbox housing..? no?
Looks like Ive got to undo the manifold and keep jacking.. more work..pfft!

PS.. Col, I managed to do the axel seals ok.

Fibber Mcgee · 10-12-2014, 09:39 PM

First time I did my 41 ,I couldn't get the back of the transmission up due to the engine hitting the firewall. After staring at it a while I realized there is a 1 inch strip on the firewall that unbolts giving you that extra clearance to get it out ( at least they thought of that) but of course you have to remove the heater to get that strip out. My 49 is so much easier to work on.

JM 35 Sedan · 10-12-2014, 09:49 PM

Jacking up the rear of the engine enough on a '35/'36 to allow the transmission to come up far enough to clear the X member and come out, will bend the exhaust pipe, the engine steady rods, and possibly some other things. When we removed the transmission from a '36 Pheaton, after the rear had been removed, we brought the rear of the engine up as much as we could without bending anything, removed the universal joint, safety wire and bolts holding the rear mount in place. After the trans mount was off, the transmission came back far enough to lift it up and out of the car.
We did not need to remove the flywheel after removing the C&PP for inspection, so that meant there was no need to remove the oil pan.
Reversed above procedure to put the rebuilt transmission back in.

Talkwrench · 10-12-2014, 10:07 PM

Sounds about right John..
The steady rod on the L/H/S I couldn't undo [at the front] damn tight ..I have no one to blame for that as I made it ! lol..
Why cant things be easy?!!

TonyM · 10-12-2014, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Jacking up the rear of the engine enough on a '35/'36 to allow the transmission to come up far enough to clear the X member and come out, will bend the exhaust pipe, the engine steady rods, and possibly some other things. .

John,

I disconnected all of those things plus I disconnected the throttle and choke linkage, the accelerator pedal linkage and upper radiator hoses. You need to remove the engine steady rods before jacking up the engine. They are right there and exposed. Not a problem; I did make my own tool for the square headed screws. Also, remove the fan and the air cleaner. I did not break or bend anything jacking up my engine.

Talkwrench · 10-12-2014, 10:55 PM

Magic of computers .. I sent the pics to the computer last night they come through at lunchtime the next day !!
Least you can see what Im up against.

Old Col · 10-12-2014, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyM

Yes, just jack up the rear of the engine and the trans with mount will come out real easy.

...your pic is '37 /39,they do come out easy...but have a look at the 35/6 pics that Talkwrench just put on and you'll see the difference,and the problem.....

TonyM · 10-13-2014, 12:00 AM

I see it. Thanks.

JM 35 Sedan · 10-13-2014, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyM

John,

I disconnected all of those things plus I disconnected the throttle and choke linkage, the accelerator pedal linkage and upper radiator hoses. You need to remove the engine steady rods before jacking up the engine. They are right there and exposed. Not a problem; I did make my own tool for the square headed screws. Also, remove the fan and the air cleaner. I did not break or bend anything jacking up my engine.

Tony, to be honest with you, it did look like we could have disconnected all the things you mentioned and maybe we could have lifted the engine and trans enough to clear those rear mount ears, and taken the trans out w/o removing the rear mount. But the owners of this car chose not to go through all of that.
This was the first time I had removed a transmission on a 35-36 when keeping the engine completely bolted in place. For some reason, in the past, I always chose to pull the engine first, then the transmission. Or, I would pull the trans and engine together as a unit. This goes all the way back to my high school days when I owned my first 35 ford.

Mac VP · 10-13-2014, 05:12 AM

One tip if you decide to remove the rear bearing retainer on the trans....particularly if you don't plan on rebuilding the trans. Keep a bolt and washer threaded into the back of the case to make sure the rear bearing & mainshaft do not wander out the back. If a rebuild is in the job, it won't matter.

TonyM · 10-13-2014, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Tony, to be honest with you, it did look like we could have disconnected all the things you mentioned and maybe we could have lifted the engine and trans enough to clear those rear mount ears, and taken the trans out w/o removing the rear mount. But the owners of this car chose not to go through all of that.
This was the first time I had removed a transmission on a 35-36 when keeping the engine completely bolted in place. For some reason, in the past, I always chose to pull the engine first, then the transmission. Or, I would pull the trans and engine together as a unit. This goes all the way back to my high school days when I owned my first 35 ford.

Thanks John and Col.

Thanks for the info; I was totally ignorant of the difficulties faced by 1935 and 1936 Ford owners when it comes to this aspect of trans removal. I mistakenly thought that the process was similar to the process for 1937-38-39 trans removal. Good to know. I wish the OP luck.

TM

ford38v8 · 10-13-2014, 02:20 PM

Mine is a '38, so I didn't have that issue, but it looks to me from the pictures that the tranny could be turned slightly to allow one mounting ear to come up and over, then you should be home free to jockey the whole thing out.

Mart · 10-13-2014, 02:38 PM

I can't offer any advice re this particular job, but when I took the motor out of my roadster, there was a slight foul between the pan and the steering box (It's a hudson box in a RHD frame). When I came to refit the motor I had a helluva job getting the trans lined up and mated back up to the engine.
What I am trying to say, is that you need to get that trans out with a clear path, so that when it goes back in, it will not get fouled up on anything. It's ten times harder getting it back together than to get it apart.

Mart.

10-12-2014, 07:30 PM	#1
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Gearbox removal..What gives?? Since I have the diff out for a rebuild thought I would go through the trans as well started out easy enough however I cant withdraw it backwards more than 1/2" or so as the mounting "ears" get pushed back into the V of the frame, seems the hole thing has to be lifted a good 2" to pass over the frame. Logically I thought I have to lift the motor and all to do it, however I cant get it up that high as the exhaust is already hitting the frame.. Is this all normal or am I missing something?? The back end of the trans was starting to lift but I felt this was wrong, it must come out straight surely. Its my 35 pickup, with a 39 box .. __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

10-12-2014, 07:41 PM	#2
Ken/Alabama Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,257	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? Jack up the rear of the engine as far as it will go.

10-12-2014, 07:46 PM	#3
bobH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: so cal, placerville, vegas Posts: 1,394	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? Don't know about 35's, but in my later model, a 47, the rear mount of the trans must be removed from the trans, while the trans is in place. Then the trans can move rearward enough. JMO

10-12-2014, 08:02 PM	#4
Fibber Mcgee Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Callahan Fla Posts: 1,149	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? On my 41 the back of the transmission does have to come up and then back . Is it the exhaust or exhaust manifold hitting? Maybe the exhaust was installed to close to the frame. __________________ Wanted, a car with a " Dynaflex Superflowing Unijet Turbovasculator which is Syncromeshed to the Multicoil Hydrotensioned Dual vacuum Dynomometer. "

10-12-2014, 08:19 PM	#5
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? Its just the exhaust , and its positioned quite well in the middle [through the frame]. It would now mean I would have to undo the manifold, normal? The rear mount from what I can see would be difficult to remove as the bolts that go through it would still not allow it come off! .. I did take pictures [with my ] but I left my phone at home today ..Doh! .. I feel if I just lift the back of the trans its just not the right thing to do , surely its putting stress on the parts up front and it wont go back in that easy ..? If jacking up is the answer, its quiet a bit to come up..pfft! Henry ...why..??!! __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

10-12-2014, 09:06 PM	#6
Old Col Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Croydon ,Victoria,Australia Posts: 107	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Hiya, '37 and up will come out that way fairly easily, but as you've discovered the "ears" on the trans clog up the works in '35/6. Generally it's easier to pull the out engine and trans as an assembly in the usual way,then remove the trans and deal with whatever dramas you have. Also by doing it that way ,if you're replacing the clutch assembly and need to resurface the flywheel ( and it often needs it when the clutch is worn) then it's a simple deal to remove the oilpan to get at it. But back to your issue....if you remove the universal joint and then remove the mounting retainer bolts, you may be able to squeeze the mount assembly past the trans,freeing up the space you need to move the trans rearwards.....maybe. You might have to rotate the mount half a turn for clearance, and angle it back at the top to get it out. It is probably a good move to undo the manifold flange nuts so you can jack up the engine, better than breaking something through stressing the parts, good luck!

10-12-2014, 09:21 PM	#8
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? Thanks Col, I'll have to have a good look at those mounting retainer bolts I just couldn't see how they come out , they seemed to be part of the gearbox housing..? no? Looks like Ive got to undo the manifold and keep jacking.. more work..pfft! PS.. Col, I managed to do the axel seals ok. __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

10-12-2014, 09:39 PM	#9
Fibber Mcgee Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Callahan Fla Posts: 1,149	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? First time I did my 41 ,I couldn't get the back of the transmission up due to the engine hitting the firewall. After staring at it a while I realized there is a 1 inch strip on the firewall that unbolts giving you that extra clearance to get it out ( at least they thought of that) but of course you have to remove the heater to get that strip out. My 49 is so much easier to work on. __________________ Wanted, a car with a " Dynaflex Superflowing Unijet Turbovasculator which is Syncromeshed to the Multicoil Hydrotensioned Dual vacuum Dynomometer. "

10-12-2014, 09:49 PM	#10
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? Jacking up the rear of the engine enough on a '35/'36 to allow the transmission to come up far enough to clear the X member and come out, will bend the exhaust pipe, the engine steady rods, and possibly some other things. When we removed the transmission from a '36 Pheaton, after the rear had been removed, we brought the rear of the engine up as much as we could without bending anything, removed the universal joint, safety wire and bolts holding the rear mount in place. After the trans mount was off, the transmission came back far enough to lift it up and out of the car. We did not need to remove the flywheel after removing the C&PP for inspection, so that meant there was no need to remove the oil pan. Reversed above procedure to put the rebuilt transmission back in. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein* Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 10-12-2014 at 10:19 PM.

10-12-2014, 10:07 PM	#11
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? Sounds about right John.. The steady rod on the L/H/S I couldn't undo [at the front] damn tight ..I have no one to blame for that as I made it ! lol.. Why cant things be easy?!! __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

10-13-2014, 12:00 AM	#15
TonyM Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: West Hammond, Illinois Posts: 2,786	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? I see it. Thanks.

10-13-2014, 05:12 AM	#17
Mac VP Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,361	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? One tip if you decide to remove the rear bearing retainer on the trans....particularly if you don't plan on rebuilding the trans. Keep a bolt and washer threaded into the back of the case to make sure the rear bearing & mainshaft do not wander out the back. If a rebuild is in the job, it won't matter. __________________ VANPELT SALES LLC Cincinnati, Ohio Office: 513-724-9486 www.vanpeltsales.com www.classictransmission.com

10-13-2014, 02:20 PM	#19
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,635	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? Mine is a '38, so I didn't have that issue, but it looks to me from the pictures that the tranny could be turned slightly to allow one mounting ear to come up and over, then you should be home free to jockey the whole thing out. __________________ Alan

10-13-2014, 02:38 PM	#20
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,744	Re: Gearbox removal..What gives?? I can't offer any advice re this particular job, but when I took the motor out of my roadster, there was a slight foul between the pan and the steering box (It's a hudson box in a RHD frame). When I came to refit the motor I had a helluva job getting the trans lined up and mated back up to the engine. What I am trying to say, is that you need to get that trans out with a clear path, so that when it goes back in, it will not get fouled up on anything. It's ten times harder getting it back together than to get it apart. Mart.