Valve Removal Flathead yet again!

[Joe KCMO]

I am working on a 1939 Ford engine rebuild with all original parts. And of course, I am having a difficult time removing the valves. The first problem was the infamous "horseshoe clip". I have figured out how to get it out by removing the spring retainer. I have done it on 5 valves(WHAT A JOB!!). For the next eleven I would like to know what is the technique for two steps. Removing the spring from mushroom valves and how would you cut the valves with out a torch. I cannot get those "*#@+:!" valve springs off unless the valve breaks. Thanks in advance.

[37ford4dr]

you raise the valves up and use a grinder to cut off the stem below the head of the valve and life gets really easy..grinder will cost about $30 at HD and use the 1/16 thick cutting wheels...with out the heads on the valves you can hammer out the valve guides by using an impact socket as a drift and a ball pein hammer. you can even soak them if you want



you can pull the springs off the valves but it is a real PITA you use a long screw driver and a long pair of pliers with the circle ends. you basically capture the valve spring with the plier and wrap the circle end around one of the windings of the spring and then pull down and with the other hand use the long screwdriver blade to lever the spring down and to the side....it takes all of your upper body strength and about 5 mins per spring and you keep working it down and to the side.

[Joe KCMO]

The problem with cutting the valve heads off is that you cannot drive the guide into the valley. The spring does not compress enough to let the guide come out. The spring has to be removed I have found. Am I doing something wrong?

[37ford4dr]

you need to take the retainer clip off the spring for sure, let me try to remember if i had the springs off the valves i cut the heads off. let me go look and see if i have any pictures of how i did it

[37ford4dr]

what type of valve stem does your car have? the mushroomed end or the newer style of spring retainer?

[37ford4dr]

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you know i looked at the pictures and i just cant recall how i did it. however i do recall pulling out the springs out to the side and it taking two nights to do it.....so i guess maybe all my springs were removed when i cut the stems

[OLD...BILL]

If you insist on using all the old or stock parts ( big mistake ) IMHO... there is a tool you need , about 8 inch long with loop offset in the center, with the valve open or up as hight as you can get it, this new tool slids under the valve and you pound the valve guide down about 1/8 to 1/4 inch, now you can pull the horse show clip out, still not easy but thay will come out now. this is good time to soak some, or get a beer, I would roll the block on its side and poor in some of our homemade blaster/sooker, stuff ie ACETONE & ATF "auto trans fluid"50/50 mix. the 1/4 inch movement of the guide, helped free it up some, not a lot but some, and some of the valves assumbles will come out now ?? others will need some more help. with your prybar ?? now with the ACETONE off gassed I..."I" would go in there with a cutting tourch and blow everthing away, and renew everthing with NEW 49/53 valve train,,,, new clean and nice to work with.... and my way roll the block over and all that junk will fall out, some lifters will fall out too. all lifters can come out now,and the cam will come out and with a drift punch you can drive the still stuck valve/guides out...now some will jump in here and NO>>NO<>>NO>>NO not the new stuff, run the old and spend time and money and find a real good shop to do all the hard work and grind and set valve lash,,, what it take to get it to run and sound good....at this point I am going to stop ....and you can get back to your big prybar ....and cold beer ....have fun .....good luck ..... OLD....BILL

[Jack E/NJ]

Reprinted from 8/26/2011 with the author's permission. 8^)

I'm assuming that the guides are so stuck that they can't be budged with a proper prybar to get the horseshoe clips out of their block recesses. The following may not be the best method, but it worked for an early 38 21-studder with stuck guides. Only one homemade drift tool and a half dozen or so 1/8" thick metal shims are required.

First, with the valve closed on the heel of the cam, pry the spring up far enough to be able to wiggle the u-shaped valve retainer out from around the mushroom stem and relieve the spring pressure. Maybe a little tricky but they're usually loose enough to easily wiggle out from the inside of the valve spring.

Then pull the valve up as high as it'll go. Liberally bathe the guide area with a 50-50 mixture of ATF/MEK or ATF/acetone. Let the mixture stew overnight.

While you're waiting for the ATF/MEK magic to happen, fashion a homemade 4-6" long drift from stout 1/4"steel, brass or aluminum about ~1/2" wide. Pull the valve up and insert drift to the top of the guide. (You may have to file a small depression in the drift to clear the valve head more and give you better access to the top of the guide).

After sitting overnight, pour more ATF/MEK into the valve chamber guide area. Then start sharply rapping, not pounding, the drift with a small hammer all around the guide while keeping the guide area well lubed the the ATF mixture. Some of the guides, usually the intakes first, will start to move down enough to pull the horseshoe clips free from their block recesses. Let the stubborn ones set another day or so, again well lubed with the ATF mixture, before rapping again. Patience is key. They will eventually all move down enough to get the clips out.

Finally, put an 1/8" shim between the lifter and the mushroom stem. Then crank the engine to use the cam lobe to push the lifter against the shim, valve stem and spring. The well-lubed guide will start to rise up in its barrel. Move the cam back on its heel. Insert another 1/8" shim and repeat pushing with the cam lobe to raise the guide even higher. Keep inserting shims and cam lobe pushes until the spring, guide and valve come flying out of the barrel. It's best to cover the valve assembly and barrel with a cloth or can during this process to catch all the flying parts. 8^) Good luck.

Jack E/NJ

[Bruce Lancaster]

On the drift tool...try hard to find an old one, KD, Plomb, or Snap-on forging as those are nicely shaped and very, very strong.
Some currently available ons from Olde Ford parts places are little more than bent and grooved rod and will bend before they will move anything.
KD is probably the best and fairly common, as every garage on the plabet once had one.

[Hoop]

Here's the famous "Speed King" ... combination valve guide tapper downer with slide hammer and patented pry out feature.

[Russ/40]

It is easier to get the spring out, and the valve higher to allow the drift in under the valve, if you, after removing the spring keeper, you force the valve up with a pry-bar, so the taper on the valve foot expands - spits - and breaks the bottom third off the split guides. You may need to pry from between the spring coils to get the valve high enough to split the guide.

[BillM]

And if you decide to cut the valve heads off with a grinder or torch; another option is to whack the partially raised valves with a hammer. I found that they are brittle enough to break off easily. Protect the valve seats with some scrap metal and observe all the usual safety precautions.

[Joe KCMO]

Thank you all for your help. I found the solution at least for me. Here is what I found so far.

1) No matter how hard you try to compress the valve with the valve rod you cannot remove the horseshoe clip because THE VALVE GUIDE WILL NOT MOVE DOWN.

2) If you cut the valve heads off you can not compress the guides down unless you remove the spring.

3) You cannot cut the bottoms of the valves off after you remove the springs with a grinder because it will not fit in the valley.

Here is how I removed my valves with all the information I could find.

1) Lift the spring near lifter and remove the spring retainer.

2) Open the valve and with a maximum 1/4" punch, tap the valve guide down enough so that the horseshoe clip can be removed with your fingers.

3) Hold the valve open with vise grips and Using a pry bar and valve spring rod, pry the spring out.

4) Close the valve and with a cold chisel whack the valve stem. The valve bottom breaks off and pull the valve head out the top.

5) Using 1/2" drive socket with extension knock the guide into the valley.

6) Covered in grease and penetrating oil and two days worth of work 4 cylinders done. But with this knowledge the next 8 valves should be as easy as running up a hill carrying the motor .

You might not believe it, but I am having a good time and look forward to the thrills ahead.

[37ford4dr]

sounds right to me....after pulling the springs off the bottom a couple of times you get good at the technique.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Any flathead valve removal from which you can walk away and after which the block isn't cracked from the violence was done 100% correctly.

[Henry/Kokomo]

Originally Posted by Joe KCMO

Thank you all for your help. I found the solution at least for me. Here is what I found so far.


6) Covered in grease and penetrating oil and two days worth of work 4 cylinders done. But with this knowledge the next 8 valves should be as easy as running up a hill carrying the motor .

You might not believe it, but I am having a good time and look forward to the thrills ahead.

Joe, you're one sick puppy - but I understand. Good luck.

[Hoop]

Not all valves/guide have to be cut/pounded/etc. The tool I posted above will remove some valves easily once the horseshoe clip is removed, complete with spring attached.

Some ...

Others are @#*&%#$@$>&**$#@ ards.

[Joe KCMO]

Thanks to all and the search button, all valves out. Valves 9 -16 came out in little over an hour due to all the learning of valves 1-8. On to the pistons, rods and rest. Having a good time and spending lots of money, what a great hobby. :-)

[39portlander]

About to tear down an 8BA, good post's. now I know what up about to deal with

[Bruce Lancaster]

8BA...straight stem valves. Yank off spring retainer, valve can come out the top...just yank if all is headed for the trash, de-burr the groove and end with a file if going to reuse as anything there will tear up the guide. At that point spring can come out (again, easiest if headed for the trash and you can just yank hard!) and then use something like a socket on an extension as a driver to push guide down with hammer. None of the tactical finesse and flexible response needed with mushroom valves...