Chandler Groves Co. carb

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

I know there was a long thread on this carb a few days ago, but I'd like figure out if the one I've got is a certain year. On the right side of the bowl says Chandler Groves Co. Detroit--has an F on the right side of bowl where the pump goes--has 94 in a round circle on the back of bowl--No breather pipe inside choke area--has about a 1/4in. hole on the back of the cover that goes into pump area--has 91-99 on left side of bowl--has 15/16 on left side of bowl. Is this any certain year? Thanks Walt

[ford38v8]

Walt, that carb was made by Ford in 1939 only.
Tell me please, the 91-99, was it engraved in the mold, or was it in a circle? I ask because if it was in a circle, then it was a later 1939 mold with the replaceable disc model number, to be changed as required to a next model in series. If engraved, it was closer to the 1938 model year, using the old mold.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Walt, that carb was made by Ford in 1939 only.
Tell me please, the 91-99, was it engraved in the mold, or was it in a circle? I ask because if it was in a circle, then it was a later 1939 mold with the replaceable disc model number, to be changed as required to a next model in series. If engraved, it was closer to the 1938 model year, using the old mold.

I'll check this out in the morning. It's snowing and blowing and chill factor around zero so don't want to go out doors anymore today. Walt

[ken ct]

In my opinion its a 39,and i would sell it as so. No # 91-99 would be late 38.As 97's were used in early 38. This was a mid yr change in 38. OMO ken ct. Others may have diff. opinions

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Walt, that carb was made by Ford in 1939 only.
Tell me please, the 91-99, was it engraved in the mold, or was it in a circle? I ask because if it was in a circle, then it was a later 1939 mold with the replaceable disc model number, to be changed as required to a next model in series. If engraved, it was closer to the 1938 model year, using the old mold.

I would say it was engraved in the mold, no circle. It's got the word MODLE and under modle is 91-99. There is no circle and the letters and no. stick out just a little, you feel them with your finger nail. Walt

[ford38v8]

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Walt, It must have warmed up a little or else you consumed enough lobster liquor to keep you warm!

So, you have what some might term an early '39 carburetor.

I've learned to not categorize as "Early or Late", or Mid-Year Change" due to Ford's system of inventory control: "First In-Last Out" makes it difficult to say something never happened or to positively date something, because as soon as you make that statement, it comes back to haunt you.

What we do know for sure is that the CG 91-99 was intended for job 1 for 1939, and the left over molds from 1938 were etched with that model number. (I personally doubt there were any CG molds with the replaceable coin type model number, but then, I'd hesitate to make book on it.) The Ford script 91-99 could possibly have been delayed initially due to patent right issues, but it likely ran concurrently with the CG until CG inventory ran out. Yours is a scarce carburetor today, but the number of examples that keep showing up indicate a sizable inventory.

[1952henry]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Walt, that carb was made by Ford in 1939 only.
Tell me please, the 91-99, was it engraved in the mold, or was it in a circle? I ask because if it was in a circle, then it was a later 1939 mold with the replaceable disc model number, to be changed as required to a next model in series. If engraved, it was closer to the 1938 model year, using the old mold.

Hmm, I've had/rebuilt Model 59s with both styles you describe. I may have had some 21-29s pass through that match both descriptions as well.

[ford38v8]

Henry, I think you're just goading me on here. What do you want me to say? You're just plain wrong.

[Bluebell]

Rumbleseat says they were made/ used up until the overhead valve motors, came into being.

[ken ct]

Originally Posted by Bluebell

Rumbleseat says they were made/ used up until the overhead valve motors, came into being.

I dought if any Chandler-Groves were produced after 1939. Ford and Holley were the producers of and were refered to as CG type carbs by many people who dont know the differance.Ford had Holley copy the CG with very slight changes not even noticeable to the average person,im with Owen on this. [52 Henry] ken ct. I have 5 CG and all but 1 have no # on the drivers side bowl. Only 1 has the 91-99 on it out of 5 of them???

[ford38v8]

Ken, ypour not even on the same page. 4 of your CG's are 1938 and 1 is 1940. Henry (owen?) stated that he once had a 21-29 and multiple 59's that had the model number set in a circle: A replaceable disc inserted into the mold, all of which had the CG logo. I challenge you and anyone else to produce photos of that fantasy carburetor. Here come the Photo Shop wizards!

[1952henry]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Walt, that carb was made by Ford in 1939 only.
Tell me please, the 91-99, was it engraved in the mold, or was it in a circle? I ask because if it was in a circle, then it was a later 1939 mold with the replaceable disc model number, to be changed as required to a next model in series. If engraved, it was closer to the 1938 model year, using the old mold.

Late in the 91-99 production, (1940) the molds, which do wear out, began being made with a replaceable coin model number, so that the same mold could be used for any future model simply by replacing the coin with the appropriate number. (Carb bodies were the same, but the controls changed from model to model (your words)

Funny thing, Al, I didn't say I had CG 21-29s or 59s. They are Ford. As far as I know, the only AA1s that CG made for Ford are the unmarked and marked Model 91-99s. What "next model in series" are you referring to? You have posted twice that next or future models have the "coin" type model number. I was just stating that I have had "later" or "future" models (including 8BA & EABs) with the large, not "coin", numbers.

[ford38v8]

Henry, I see where the misunderstanding lies. Walts carb is a CG, and the CG in all its varieties is what the discussion was about. The Ford Script carburetors were never in question in this discussion at all. Your reference to the later models came from left field, having no bearing on the discussion about CGs at all. I'm glad we were both civil about it and didn't start calling each other ugly names as does tend to happen with misunderstandings. For that we should congratulate ourselves!

Now about the later carbs, the 8BA and EABs you mention, I haven't any knowledge of those carbs other than that they are 94's, so you may indeed be correct about the "No coin" model numbers on those units. The major difference in that event however, would be that presumably, those molds would have been designed to include the model number, while the CG example 91-99 was engraved on pre-existing molds. This particular time period being a transition period involving legal issues, Ford had conflicting production and contractual requirements, which were dealt with smoothly, as evidenced by the hand engraved workmanship on the "MODEL 91-99" Chandler Groves.

[ken ct]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Ken, ypour not even on the same page. 4 of your CG's are 1938 and 1 is 1940. Henry (owen?) stated that he once had a 21-29 and multiple 59's that had the model number set in a circle: A replaceable disc inserted into the mold, all of which had the CG logo. I challenge you and anyone else to produce photos of that fantasy carburetor. Here come the Photo Shop wizards!

Again i say NO CG had a coin disc on the drivers side bowl. ken ct.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by ken ct

Again i say NO CG had a coin disc on the drivers side bowl. ken ct.

Ken, you are correct as far as I know. I asked Walt as an ongoing verification of that fact.