The Ford Barn

Joe Immler · 01-31-2015, 09:56 AM

I have a clutch adjustment problem. We installed a 59A '46 engine into my '41 Ford. The rebuilt engine had a 10" flywheel so I ordered a 10" clutch and pressure plate to replace the 9" that was in it. The car has the '41 transmission. After we got the engine installed and the transmission hooked up we found we could not shift it into gear. We tried to adjust the clutch. When the clutch is let out there is no free play. The clutch engages right off the floor. There is not enough throw and there is no adjustment left. Your thoughts ?

George/Maine · 01-31-2015, 10:12 AM

I think the rod is to long cut off 1/2" and try that.

scooder · 01-31-2015, 12:08 PM

Clutch let out no free play and clutch engages right off the floor? Surely if the clutch engages just off the floor, you'd have about 6-7" of free play? Less I'm missing something?
Free play is the amount the pedal moves before the clutch release bearing comes into contact with the clutch fingers. See what I'm getting at?
Could you have another look see what's going on please, as it sounds to me that the pedal to release arm is to short, or somethings at the wrong angle.
Is this a car that was all together and working before the engine swap? Is the 10" clutch a " long" style clutch?
Tryin to work out what's not doing what it should.
Martin.

benp · 01-31-2015, 12:29 PM

Did you put the disk in backwards

Joe Immler · 01-31-2015, 12:38 PM

Scooder I will do some more checking. The car was all together and driving before the swap. The only change is from a 9" flywheel, clutch and pressure plate to 10".

Kube · 01-31-2015, 01:00 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Immler

Scooder I will do some more checking. The car was all together and driving before the swap. The only change is from a 9" flywheel, clutch and pressure plate to 10".

If all you did was swap to a larger clutch, there should be no issues whatsoever. This is a simple swap requiring no modification to the linkage.
Was the 10" clutch of the stock 'three finger" type?
Bottom line: If the clutch worked prior to this swap (albeit worn) it should work now.
I'd really be concerned with the pressure plate. I have seen many rebuilt plates that were improperly done. Specifically, the height specification (compressed) from the plate surface to the top of the three fingers is often overlooked and if it comes up "short" you will have exactly the issue you describe.

Kube · 01-31-2015, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benp

Did you put the disk in backwards

Backward? It would be most difficult to do this without noticing while installing the pressure plate and if that blind, subsequently the transmission.

benp · 01-31-2015, 01:11 PM

Yes I got in hurry and done this it will go together fine

Kube · 01-31-2015, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benp

Yes I got in hurry and done this it will go together fine

I'd think one would notice when drawing down the pressure plate. LOTS of interference with the backward disc.

V8COOPMAN · 01-31-2015, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benp

Yes I got in hurry and done this it will go together fine

Are you saying that you first installed the disc backwards, and have subsequently discovered your error(?).......and that all is now WELL? DD

Joe Immler · 01-31-2015, 03:44 PM

Kube As I said earlier, the flywheel,clutch and pressure plate are new 10" REPLACING the 9" flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. The pressure plate and clutch are from Mac's and listed in the catalog as "new". So, does this make a difference per your post ?
Thanks

Kube · 01-31-2015, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Immler

Kube As I said earlier, the flywheel,clutch and pressure plate are new 10" REPLACING the 9" flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. The pressure plate and clutch are from Mac's and listed in the catalog as "new". So, does this make a difference per your post ?
Thanks

The flywheel is NEW? I might be a bit suspicious of that (quality) in light of your dilemma.
Still, I am a firm believer in following these issues systematically.
So, first things first.... can you check how much free play you have? As posted earlier, this is the amount of travel the pedal makes prior to engaging the throw-out bearing.
Let's go from there.

George/Maine · 01-31-2015, 07:01 PM

If you have 59a you need flywheel for that engine. You could have a 8ba flywheel, and PPLates some have no adjusting 3 screws .You loose 3/8 travel with that PP.

bobH · 02-01-2015, 01:45 PM

Joe, did you change engines AGAIN ? No matter, my clutch comments go back to when I first got our 47, about 14-15 years ago. Had the same-sounding clutch problem. Bottom line, the so-called rebuilt clutch was never right. Too much 'marcel' on the disc, and fingers never adjusted correctly. That clutch eventually wore in, meaning the 'marcel' flattened and the surface wore some, and then it would release properly at about half-to-3/4 pedal travel. Eventually, though, I found a clutch rebuilder that knows his stuff, and got another clutch that works as it should.
Another thing I came to believe, I looked for, and found, ORIGINAL Ford discs, old stock, and probably contain asbestos. In my opinion, they perform better. And, they have the correct 'marcel', right out of the package.
Some of this was learned through discussion with some of our 'club' friends, Dan Krehbiel (sp?), Jon Roberts, Joe Mac, & Bill McGrath.
Side note... I have never liked the way the 10-in clutch in our 47 works, as much as the 9-in clutch in our other car works. In my opinion, the 9-in is far surperior with regard to smoothness, ease of operation, etc.
My best to you, Bob

Joe Immler · 02-01-2015, 03:04 PM

Bob, This is only the second engine replacing the one Jon installed 17 years ago. The guys working on it are going talk to Jon tomorrow. I think I am stuck with the 10" clutch.
Good to hear from you.

Kube · 02-01-2015, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Immler

Bob, This is only the second engine replacing the one Jon installed 17 years ago. The guys working on it are going talk to Jon tomorrow. I think I am stuck with the 10" clutch.
Good to hear from you.

Joe, Did you figure the issue out?
If not, how about the free play measurement?

George/Maine · 02-01-2015, 03:38 PM

Looking at your pressure plate does it have adjusting screws.
Macs shows with no screws.
If yours has them and fingers stick out farther.
Go for the simple first.
Put the floor board back in and make adjustment.
Dis connect the rod and see if to long.
My engine swap I had to shorten the rod.
You also could have wrong flywheel.
Speedway lists to 48 one number and 49-53 different.

Joe Immler · 02-01-2015, 04:33 PM

Kube, We took the weekend off. Will look at and check stuff Monday

Joe Immler · 03-17-2015, 12:51 PM

I finally have the solution to the problem. It is the clutch equalizer shaft. Sometime in it's life the car had a 39A shaft from a Mercury installed. With the 9" setup this worked but when everything was changed to 10" the adjustment problem surfaced. The shaft from center to center measured 3.4" It was changed to a 51A-7503 that measures center to center 3.1". This allowed for more throw on the pressure plate fingers. The 10" setup requires more throw because the fingers are longer.
Although a '41 originally had a 10" setup, mine for some reason was changed to 9" at some point.
BTW I realize It has been a long weekend per my last post. The shop got busy and I was in no hurry as the Ford could spend the winter in a heated shop vs my cold garage.

01-31-2015, 09:56 AM	#1
Joe Immler Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Massillon, Ohio Posts: 783	Clutch Adjustment I have a clutch adjustment problem. We installed a 59A '46 engine into my '41 Ford. The rebuilt engine had a 10" flywheel so I ordered a 10" clutch and pressure plate to replace the 9" that was in it. The car has the '41 transmission. After we got the engine installed and the transmission hooked up we found we could not shift it into gear. We tried to adjust the clutch. When the clutch is let out there is no free play. The clutch engages right off the floor. There is not enough throw and there is no adjustment left. Your thoughts ?

01-31-2015, 10:12 AM	#2
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Clutch Adjustment I think the rod is to long cut off 1/2" and try that.

01-31-2015, 12:08 PM	#3
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Clutch Adjustment Clutch let out no free play and clutch engages right off the floor? Surely if the clutch engages just off the floor, you'd have about 6-7" of free play? Less I'm missing something? Free play is the amount the pedal moves before the clutch release bearing comes into contact with the clutch fingers. See what I'm getting at? Could you have another look see what's going on please, as it sounds to me that the pedal to release arm is to short, or somethings at the wrong angle. Is this a car that was all together and working before the engine swap? Is the 10" clutch a " long" style clutch? Tryin to work out what's not doing what it should. Martin.

01-31-2015, 12:29 PM	#4
benp Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 14	Re: Clutch Adjustment Did you put the disk in backwards

01-31-2015, 12:38 PM	#5
Joe Immler Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Massillon, Ohio Posts: 783	Re: Clutch Adjustment Scooder I will do some more checking. The car was all together and driving before the swap. The only change is from a 9" flywheel, clutch and pressure plate to 10".

01-31-2015, 01:11 PM	#8
benp Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 14	Re: Clutch Adjustment Yes I got in hurry and done this it will go together fine

01-31-2015, 03:44 PM	#11
Joe Immler Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Massillon, Ohio Posts: 783	Re: Clutch Adjustment Kube As I said earlier, the flywheel,clutch and pressure plate are new 10" REPLACING the 9" flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. The pressure plate and clutch are from Mac's and listed in the catalog as "new". So, does this make a difference per your post ? Thanks

01-31-2015, 07:01 PM	#13
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Clutch Adjustment If you have 59a you need flywheel for that engine. You could have a 8ba flywheel, and PPLates some have no adjusting 3 screws .You loose 3/8 travel with that PP.

02-01-2015, 01:45 PM	#14
bobH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: so cal, placerville, vegas Posts: 1,394	Re: Clutch Adjustment Joe, did you change engines AGAIN ? No matter, my clutch comments go back to when I first got our 47, about 14-15 years ago. Had the same-sounding clutch problem. Bottom line, the so-called rebuilt clutch was never right. Too much 'marcel' on the disc, and fingers never adjusted correctly. That clutch eventually wore in, meaning the 'marcel' flattened and the surface wore some, and then it would release properly at about half-to-3/4 pedal travel. Eventually, though, I found a clutch rebuilder that knows his stuff, and got another clutch that works as it should. Another thing I came to believe, I looked for, and found, ORIGINAL Ford discs, old stock, and probably contain asbestos. In my opinion, they perform better. And, they have the correct 'marcel', right out of the package. Some of this was learned through discussion with some of our 'club' friends, Dan Krehbiel (sp?), Jon Roberts, Joe Mac, & Bill McGrath. Side note... I have never liked the way the 10-in clutch in our 47 works, as much as the 9-in clutch in our other car works. In my opinion, the 9-in is far surperior with regard to smoothness, ease of operation, etc. My best to you, Bob

02-01-2015, 03:04 PM	#15
Joe Immler Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Massillon, Ohio Posts: 783	Re: Clutch Adjustment Bob, This is only the second engine replacing the one Jon installed 17 years ago. The guys working on it are going talk to Jon tomorrow. I think I am stuck with the 10" clutch. Good to hear from you.

02-01-2015, 03:38 PM	#17
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Clutch Adjustment Looking at your pressure plate does it have adjusting screws. Macs shows with no screws. If yours has them and fingers stick out farther. Go for the simple first. Put the floor board back in and make adjustment. Dis connect the rod and see if to long. My engine swap I had to shorten the rod. You also could have wrong flywheel. Speedway lists to 48 one number and 49-53 different.

02-01-2015, 04:33 PM	#18
Joe Immler Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Massillon, Ohio Posts: 783	Re: Clutch Adjustment Kube, We took the weekend off. Will look at and check stuff Monday

03-17-2015, 12:51 PM	#19
Joe Immler Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Massillon, Ohio Posts: 783	Re: Clutch Adjustment I finally have the solution to the problem. It is the clutch equalizer shaft. Sometime in it's life the car had a 39A shaft from a Mercury installed. With the 9" setup this worked but when everything was changed to 10" the adjustment problem surfaced. The shaft from center to center measured 3.4" It was changed to a 51A-7503 that measures center to center 3.1". This allowed for more throw on the pressure plate fingers. The 10" setup requires more throw because the fingers are longer. Although a '41 originally had a 10" setup, mine for some reason was changed to 9" at some point. BTW I realize It has been a long weekend per my last post. The shop got busy and I was in no hurry as the Ford could spend the winter in a heated shop vs my cold garage.