England engine build numbers

[tomkline]

About a year ago I purchased a RHD rolling chassis. I am trying to determine what year it is. The car was originally a roadster. It was bought by a serviceman in WW2 stationed in England. He had it shipped to the states when he was discharged. The number on the engine is 12759765. Is there another location that would have a number? Any help would be appreciated.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by tomkline

About a year ago I purchased a RHD rolling chassis. I am trying to determine what year it is. The car was originally a roadster. It was bought by a serviceman in WW2 stationed in England. He had it shipped to the states when he was discharged. The number on the engine is 12759765. Is there another location that would have a number? Any help would be appreciated.

Tom,

To begin with, 12759765 is WAY out of the Model A/AA number range.

The only engine numbers that England used were those OMITTED NUMBERS on the USA list...those OMITTED NUMBERS were blocks of numbers that FORD sent to England to be used on the stampings of their completed engines and were never used in the USA.

To determine about just where your "rolling chassis" is in the production of things, go to my website and there you will find a list of articles to find out just when the "completed engine" was stamped, the frame assembly, gas tank dates, assembly plant codes, etc.

You very well may have other features on the "chassis" that are of later Model A/AA production.

You can also get the MARC/MAFCA restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards which will deffeintly help you out in your determination.

Hope this helps.

Pluck

[Joe K]

Vince Falter at his Fordgarage site has a rather extensive library of Fordandia, including information on engine number and particularly foreign Ford engines identification/attributes. See http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABenginenumbers.htm

You may want to check that chassis about half way down the right side (about under where a LHD driver's foot would appear) as it may have a number stamped into the top flange of the frame. Well, check that spot and the same spot on the right hand side (you say this is a RHD chassis?)

As the numbered engines were assembled into the frame, the frame was "co-stamped" with the same number as the block. You may or may not have the original Ford engine in that chassis.

Your engine may be a "small bore" British engine. A curious Ford variant, the "use tax" was set by engine displacement and small bore engines were popular. Also, any other details along with that engine number? Most American engines have an "A" in front. Other countries have different codes. Check Vince's page.

Joe K

Edit: Reading Steve's entry above: Vince's page does address the "missing numbers" along with other details of foreign production.

[johnbuckley]

Steve Plucker is indeed the guru Ford A numbering and that number does not fit any known sequence. As he says the English ones were "omitted ones" from the USA list. I think some of the English ones, which had a 2043cc engine, may have AF as a prefix.
The so-called English ones may actually have been cast in Cork Ireland, but we have old archive footage of cylinder boring being done on them in England. The 3285 cc and 2043cc engines look externally identical except that the small capacity engine has a "land" between each cylinder on the Left side of the block whereas the 3285 cc has the land only between cylinders 2 and 3. You can thus quickly identify which it is. The stroke was the same on both engines but the bore of the smaller engine was 3.055 inches and I think the internal bore of the exhaust manifold was slightly smaller- externally the manifold was same. Externally the cylinder head was the same but a smaller combustion chamber for the 2043cc .The venturi and jet sizes of the Zenith were different. Of course you need to be aware of the other LHD/RHD difference- lug on manifold to take mechanism for advance/retard rod, slightly different bushing on clutch/pedal shaft, as well as obvious things like cenrtral accelerator attached to steering column, bellhousing, steering box and associated steering components. Our UK vehicle registrar [email protected] may be able to help you further.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by johnbuckley

Steve Plucker is indeed the guru Ford A numbering and that number does not fit any known sequence. As he says the English ones were "omitted ones" from the USA list. I think some of the English ones, which had a 2043cc engine, may have AF as a prefix.
The so-called English ones may actually have been cast in Cork Ireland, but we have old archive footage of cylinder boring being done on them in England. The 3285 cc and 2043cc engines look externally identical except that the small capacity engine has a "land" between each cylinder on the Left side of the block whereas the 3285 cc has the land only between cylinders 2 and 3. You can thus quickly identify which it is. The stroke was the same on both engines but the bore of the smaller engine was 3.055 inches and I think the internal bore of the exhaust manifold was slightly smaller- externally the manifold was same. Externally the cylinder head was the same but a smaller combustion chamber for the 2043cc .The venturi and jet sizes of the Zenith were different. Of course you need to be aware of the other LHD/RHD difference- lug on manifold to take mechanism for advance/retard rod, slightly different bushing on clutch/pedal shaft, as well as obvious things like cenrtral accelerator attached to steering column, bellhousing, steering box and associated steering components. Our UK vehicle registrar [email protected] may be able to help you further.

John,

Can you post a photo of the difference?

Thank you!

Pluck

[Juggler]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Here you go Pluck

I've got one on top of the other in the garage. You can just about make out the AF engine number on the top block



Slightly better view of the 14.9 in my Dad's Phaeton



Driver's side



Cheers

Juggs

[Steve Plucker]

Interesting Juggs!

Thanks for the photos on that aspect...

Hopefully my article coming out in the May/June issue of Model A News will also shed some light on the USA engine blocks.

Pluck

[Joe K]

Interesting variation on that two tooth steering box - the bolt is moved over to the side to avoid the carburetor inlet.

The minutia of the RHD is part of the attraction?

Joe K

[Juggler]

Originally Posted by Joe K

The minutia of the RHD is part of the attraction?

Joe K

Nope - I'm in England and you play with what you get dealt

[Hotrodfil]

Originally Posted by Juggler

Nope - I'm in England and you play with what you get dealt

Indeed!

[tomkline]

As far as I can find on the frame it looks the number could be 789755. Does this correspond to what may have been assigned to England engine build numbers.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by tomkline

As far as I can find on the frame it looks the number could be 789755. Does this correspond to what may have been assigned to England engine build numbers.

NO...Check out my website.

Pluck