Is ther an easy way to install shims on rear axle/hub.

[Fred K-OR]

Lot of posts on axle shims. I know I should not use them, use only one, fix the problem,etc. I do need to use a shim for now on my coupe. Question is-does anyone have an easy way to install the $#@% things? Have struggled with this and do not have a good way to do it.

[Mitch//pa]

what problem are you having
remove the drum
slide the shim on the axle taper then reinstall drum

[Joe K]

I imagine your difficulty is primarily with getting the hub off the rear axle? Didn't someone else have a thread describing the various "pullers" and removal tools to accomplish this?

Once off, putting the axle shim SHOULD be simply lining it up on the key (make sure fit it UP to either side of the key with no gap) and then putting on the hub and making it tight.

While you are at it, buy a new key and check it for fit. If a little sloppy, you can 'pein' the sides of the taper shaft groove with a hammer to bend them in a little and make a tighter fit.

And no - I never said in my previous post NOT to use shims. If used, I would limit it to one certainly. And if that one is used, be sure of no other compromises having been taken with your hub nut/threads and attempt to achieve the full torque.

Lessee - 5/8"-18 thread. And a modern equivalent of Grade 5 (I consider this a reasonable approximation for steel which is better than average, but not grade 8 modern. ) gives a torque value of 106-147 foot-lbs dry. I think I've given a number lubricated of 90 ft-lbs lubricated before - which is consistent with these numbers. See http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tables/torque2.htm

Hope this helps.

Joe K

[Mitch//pa]

or two burbs of the snapon 1/2 impact

[Fred K-OR]

Thanks guys for the info. The problem I am having is that the drum is rubbing on the e-brake shoe and the pin that hold the e-brake arm. You can see the notch made around the drum where the e-brake shoe was ribbing and wore a ridge around the drum. It is in the one photo and in the same photo where the pin was rubbing on the back side of the lug bolt. The pin's head was almost worn off. I think I have installed everything correctly. If not and you can tell from the photos, please let me know where I messed up.

I took the drum off the other wheel(drivers side) and put it on the axle I am having problems with(passengers side) and it seems to slip on the axle as far as the original drum which is beyond the threads on the axle(with the washer off). When this drum(drivers side) is on the drivers side axle it does not go on beyond the threads.

So my simple mind says that my passengers side axle is worn enough so that the drum(either drum) will slip on the axle to far and rub on the e-brake shoe and pin. Thus this is my reason for thinking about using a shim on the axle to keep the drum from going on to far. Or I guess if I wanted to fix it "right" I would put in a new or good used axle-don't want to do that at this time.

Sorry about so much description above but if anyone has any good ideas to help this old guy out that knows nothing much about A's, would appreciate any advise.

[Joe K]

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I think you're exactly the person the axle shims were made for.

Give it a try! Heed warning on getting full torque though.

Joe K

[tbirdtbird]

you may be surprised to learn that Tom Endy uses 2 shims per side on every rear end he overhauls

You areas of interference are very common problems.

More than once I have taken my right angle 4" grinder to the edges of the ebrake bands, and the head of that pin

[Tom Wesenberg]

I wouldn't be afraid to use one or two shims per axle if need be.

[hardtimes]

Hey Fred,
Not sure what you fear and/or are having trouble with? But, if you are having drums rubbing up against backing plate and attached parts, then that's when and why shims are used ! Very few of us have the luxury of having NEW axles to properly position the drums out. I have used two shims per side for years now and if you can still get the cotter pin into place, you're good to go. Proper amount of torque is most essential for proper mating of these surfaces !
BTW, I've talked with guys in the past who have used axle shims and are/were unhappy with what they say happened with shims moving , etc. I say that they did not use the shims properly and torque properly...or the shims wouldn't have moved anywhere. Hey, your alternative is easy, but expensive. Just buy/install new axles.

[Fred K-OR]

The other problem I am having is that I tried to install a fairly thick shim. In doing so I stripped the threads on the nut I was using. I have couple of new nuts coming in and I hope I have not messed up the threads on the axle. I think I will try to put in a thin shim to start with and see how that works and hope the axle threads hold.

Thanks guys for the ideas.

[Patrick L.]

If the parking brake gets in the way, I prefer to get out the grinder.


It does look as though you could use a new axle.

[Bob C]

How about a better picture of the threads, the ones in
your first picture don't look very good but it could be the
picture.

Bob

[Fred K-OR]

Bob, yes they are not very good. I will try another picture in the next day or so. I was thinking I would wait until the new nuts come in to see how they do on the axle. I was thinking that I needed to borrow one of those thread cutting things (I don't know my tool names) and see if I could maybe "true" the threads up a bit. What do you think of that idea? Would it work or do more harm? Maybe I am in for another axle-hate that possibility.

[johnsor]

On other Model A's I have owned I have used axel shims sussessfully. My problem now with my roadster is that if I try to torque the axel nut up to recommended torque, I can sense that the axel threads are starting to yield. Thus I only torque up to 50-60 ft. lbs. I have used new nuts and chased the axel threads, same thing. I guess after 85 years of bearing service and so forth, the threads are just worn out and nothing can be done about the problem short of new axels which is a big job.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

I have used up to two with no trouble. To assist in getting the drum on without pushing the shim back into the axle seal, I curl the shim by rolling it so the gap closes, spread it slightly so the gap fits over the key then slip it up the taper so it fits the taper snugly

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by johnsor

On other Model A's I have owned I have used axel shims sussessfully. My problem now with my roadster is that if I try to torque the axel nut up to recommended torque, I can sense that the axel threads are starting to yield. Thus I only torque up to 50-60 ft. lbs. I have used new nuts and chased the axel threads, same thing. I guess after 85 years of bearing service and so forth, the threads are just worn out and nothing can be done about the problem short of new axels which is a big job.

Have you tried old nuts? Most of the repro stuff is junk. Roy Nacewicz Parts, (313) 383-3673, fordbolts.com would probably be the best place to start looking for high quality new nuts. At 50-60 ft lbs it is my guess that you are headed for an axle failure.

Charlie Stephens

[George Miller]

I would be careful using thread chasers on the axle thread. That thread is not your hard ware store class fit. A better way is turn the castle nut on back words, and turn it on all the way.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by pat in Santa Cruz

I have used up to two with no trouble. To assist in getting the drum on without pushing the shim back into the axle seal, I curl the shim by rolling it so the gap closes, spread it slightly so the gap fits over the key then slip it up the taper so it fits the taper snugly

THIS is what I meant by getting a "close fit" between the shim and the key.

If the shim material is ANY distance from the key, it will result in an increased tendency for the key to "tip fail" or roll in it's slot.

Keeping everything close decreases the chance of this happening.

Joe K

[Joe K]

Regarding the nuts, you want Castle or slotted nuts, 5/8-18 UNF meeting spec J995Grade 8 in plain finish. Cad plating typically used on lesser nuts weakens them, possibly up to 25 percent.

I have found only a couple of suppliers on the 'net, all of them pricey, but a further search may find more .

https://www.earnestmachine.com/produ...d-hex-nut/9630

The bolt vendors vary in the way they classify these nuts. Many have slotted nuts under a lesser grade 2 category, and reserve the castle nuts for grade 5. Generally if you find the nut plated, it is probably a grade 5. Almost NO grade 8 nuts in castle or slot style are plated, although nylon insert nuts in this size/grade 8 are found plated "yellow"

So if you're pricing or exploring check BOTH castle and slot nuts from your sources.

And all the Model A Vendors I have seen advertise their rear axle nuts as plated, so these are likely grade 5 or below.

Funny - Fastenal was the first place I checked. They had slot nuts they advertise as "suitable for high stress, high strength application as on automotive drive and hub applications"

They're only a grade 2.

Caviet Emptor.

Joe K

[tbirdtbird]

ha, grade 2 is only for electric toothbrushes; never cars