The Ford Barn

ply · 12-09-2016, 04:22 PM

i'm replacing a 6 volt poss ground generator with a one wire 6 volt poss ground altanator i am new at this and don't understand can anyone explain this to me i have battery wire going to single post on the alt. but there must be more to it my gage on dash says discharge no voltage regulator is needed for this 1953 ford custom 239 flathead THANKS

adileo · 12-09-2016, 04:33 PM

Sounds like you have it on the wrong terminal. I would also run it to the selinoid instead of the battery and add a ground wire as well. That's how I hooked up mine and it works well.

Bob C · 12-09-2016, 04:43 PM

Where is the other end of the wire hooked to the alternator coming from?

Bob

flatheadmurre · 12-09-2016, 04:57 PM

You must hook the alternator to the bat cable on the regulator if you hook it directly to the battery pole it will always show discharge.
Has to go through the dash wiring to make the meter work.

JSeery · 12-09-2016, 06:32 PM

I agree, connect the alternator wire to the BAT terminal on the VR if you want the rest of the car circuits to work as original. You can also connect it straight to the starter solenoid, but the ammeter won't work correctly.

adileo · 12-09-2016, 06:44 PM

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Seeking to learn. Why does the volt meter work off the soleniod. Yet the amp gauge needs battery wire from VM?

flatheadmurre · 12-09-2016, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adileo

Seeking to learn. Why does the volt meter work off the soleniod. Yet the amp gauge needs battery wire from VM?

Amp meter is telling the direction current goes so need to start in right place.

Voltmeter tells the level of the system everywhere.

adileo · 12-09-2016, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

Amp meter is telling the direction current goes so need to start in right place.

Voltmeter tells the level of the system everywhere.

Thank you !

JSeery · 12-09-2016, 06:52 PM

The ammeter is looking at current flow to/from the battery. To work correctly all of the current has to flow through the ammeter loop. So the wire is routed from the battery (via the starter solenoid) through the ammeter loop to the terminal on the CB panel.

A volt meter is looking at the voltage in the system, not current flow.

If VM was meant to be VR, that is NOT how an ammeter is connected, the wire from the battery (starter solenoid) connects to the center terminal on the CB panel (the ammeter is in this circuit). Likewise the connection from a generator/ alternator also connects to the same terminal on the CB panel. If an external VR is required then this lead would be from the BAT terminal of the VR. With a one wire alternator it could be connected directly to the CB terminal OR to the BAT terminal on the VR using it as a simple connection point.

40cpe · 12-09-2016, 06:59 PM

To re-phrase what has been said, the goal is to have the amp meter read the net charge or discharge to the battery. To do this, the charge wire must first go to the load center (fuse box, circuit breaker, etc), through the amp meter, then to the battery/solenoid. This way, the charge wire will supply the electrical needs and deliver what is left over through the amp meter to the battery. Hooking the charge wire to the battery post of the VR will connect it to the factory wiring and route it correctly.

JSeery · 12-09-2016, 07:08 PM

Yep

Paul Bennett · 12-10-2016, 01:18 AM

Think of it this way with common water analogy. (water = electrons)
The Voltmeter reads water depth, or how deep the reservoir {battery} is filled. Note that new car reservoirs are 12 deep whilst older ones only 6 deep.

An Ammeter reads the Flow of water out of the reservoir into various plants in the garden and/or it reads how much water is being replenished back into the reservoir by the generator water pump. After all, water lost from the reservoir must be replenished.

The Ammeter can monitor flow water into the garden or it can monitor water pumped by the generator back into the reservoir. And if it is placed in a common duct where water flows in AND out, it can indicate a net loss or gain of water into the reservoir.
People don't talk about electrons these days (sigh) but electrons are really the gizmos which do the work just water does. Chemistry causes the Electrons actually to pile up at the negative terminal of the battery.

Some say this concept gave birth to positive ground cars as there was an general 1910's fear of electricity and thus an erroneous aversion to having electrons on the cars metal skin which occupants touched. Shocking! Using Positive ground which has the electron supply at the battery terminal and not in the frame of the car was an early concept of safety, holes not being theorized yet. Thereby the flow simply goes from battery post to lamp and into the frame. Some later theorized the origin caught on because positive ground cars don't rust like neg gnd cars do. That's never been proven and certainly wouldn't have been a 1910's reason for choosing pos gnd. Anyway, I gotta water my carrots now.

A bones · 12-12-2016, 08:58 PM

Hey Paul Bennet, thanks for the electron talk. I have used this for years to bring the energy knowledge to others. My h.s. physics teacher laid it out.

However the pos grnd / neg grnd question has always left me wondering. Thanks for the clarification.

AND thanks JSeery for helping me find this thread.

12-09-2016, 04:22 PM	#1
ply Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2	6 volt poss. ground i'm replacing a 6 volt poss ground generator with a one wire 6 volt poss ground altanator i am new at this and don't understand can anyone explain this to me i have battery wire going to single post on the alt. but there must be more to it my gage on dash says discharge no voltage regulator is needed for this 1953 ford custom 239 flathead THANKS

12-09-2016, 04:33 PM	#2
adileo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,772	Re: 6 volt poss. ground Sounds like you have it on the wrong terminal. I would also run it to the selinoid instead of the battery and add a ground wire as well. That's how I hooked up mine and it works well.

12-09-2016, 04:43 PM	#3
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,749	Re: 6 volt poss. ground Where is the other end of the wire hooked to the alternator coming from? Bob

12-09-2016, 04:57 PM	#4
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: 6 volt poss. ground You must hook the alternator to the bat cable on the regulator if you hook it directly to the battery pole it will always show discharge. Has to go through the dash wiring to make the meter work.

12-09-2016, 06:32 PM	#5
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 6 volt poss. ground I agree, connect the alternator wire to the BAT terminal on the VR if you want the rest of the car circuits to work as original. You can also connect it straight to the starter solenoid, but the ammeter won't work correctly.

12-09-2016, 06:44 PM	#6
adileo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,772	Re: 6 volt poss. ground Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Seeking to learn. Why does the volt meter work off the soleniod. Yet the amp gauge needs battery wire from VM?

12-09-2016, 06:52 PM	#9
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 6 volt poss. ground The ammeter is looking at current flow to/from the battery. To work correctly all of the current has to flow through the ammeter loop. So the wire is routed from the battery (via the starter solenoid) through the ammeter loop to the terminal on the CB panel. A volt meter is looking at the voltage in the system, not current flow. If VM was meant to be VR, that is NOT how an ammeter is connected, the wire from the battery (starter solenoid) connects to the center terminal on the CB panel (the ammeter is in this circuit). Likewise the connection from a generator/ alternator also connects to the same terminal on the CB panel. If an external VR is required then this lead would be from the BAT terminal of the VR. With a one wire alternator it could be connected directly to the CB terminal OR to the BAT terminal on the VR using it as a simple connection point. Last edited by JSeery; 12-09-2016 at 07:07 PM.

12-09-2016, 06:59 PM	#10
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: 6 volt poss. ground To re-phrase what has been said, the goal is to have the amp meter read the net charge or discharge to the battery. To do this, the charge wire must first go to the load center (fuse box, circuit breaker, etc), through the amp meter, then to the battery/solenoid. This way, the charge wire will supply the electrical needs and deliver what is left over through the amp meter to the battery. Hooking the charge wire to the battery post of the VR will connect it to the factory wiring and route it correctly. Last edited by 40cpe; 12-09-2016 at 09:47 PM.

12-09-2016, 07:08 PM	#11
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 6 volt poss. ground Yep

12-10-2016, 01:18 AM	#12
Paul Bennett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 628	Re: 6 volt poss. ground Think of it this way with common water analogy. (water = electrons) The Voltmeter reads water depth, or how deep the reservoir {battery} is filled. Note that new car reservoirs are 12 deep whilst older ones only 6 deep. An Ammeter reads the Flow of water out of the reservoir into various plants in the garden and/or it reads how much water is being replenished back into the reservoir by the generator water pump. After all, water lost from the reservoir must be replenished. The Ammeter can monitor flow water into the garden or it can monitor water pumped by the generator back into the reservoir. And if it is placed in a common duct where water flows in AND out, it can indicate a net loss or gain of water into the reservoir. People don't talk about electrons these days (sigh) but electrons are really the gizmos which do the work just water does. Chemistry causes the Electrons actually to pile up at the negative terminal of the battery. Some say this concept gave birth to positive ground cars as there was an general 1910's fear of electricity and thus an erroneous aversion to having electrons on the cars metal skin which occupants touched. Shocking! Using Positive ground which has the electron supply at the battery terminal and not in the frame of the car was an early concept of safety, holes not being theorized yet. Thereby the flow simply goes from battery post to lamp and into the frame. Some later theorized the origin caught on because positive ground cars don't rust like neg gnd cars do. That's never been proven and certainly wouldn't have been a 1910's reason for choosing pos gnd. Anyway, I gotta water my carrots now. Last edited by Paul Bennett; 12-10-2016 at 01:24 AM.

12-12-2016, 08:58 PM	#13
A bones Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: CLAYTON DE Posts: 1,283	Re: 6 volt poss. ground Hey Paul Bennet, thanks for the electron talk. I have used this for years to bring the energy knowledge to others. My h.s. physics teacher laid it out. However the pos grnd / neg grnd question has always left me wondering. Thanks for the clarification. AND thanks JSeery for helping me find this thread. __________________ Enjoy yer day. Tom Hate can't fix what it started.