First Flathead build- need guideness

[Flathead-Arm]

I'm in the planning stages of building a flathead for a Model A hot rod. Don't know much about them (which is why I decided to go this route). From my research, it seems it best to go with a late 8ba. Since everything will be replaced, with performance products, it doesn't really matter whether to go with Ford or Mercury.
I'm looking to get as much hp as possible being normally aspirated. So I'm going for the Scat 304 kit.
One question I do have is the publications. I see a lot of books out there on the flatheads but I don't wanna buy them all. What's the common census on the best rebuild/modification book?

Thanks

[flatjack9]

John Lawson's book, "Flathead Facts" is a must read.

[Flathead-Arm]

Thanks I'll look it up.
My plan is to be able to take it to a machine shop (probably Harold "Putt") tell him what machine work I want done to it. Then take it home and assemble it myself (with my 16yr old). Is there a list of typical performance machine work that's done to these engines?

[JSeery]

It is a very informative book, but it relates to testing various bolt-on items on a relatively stock block/engine.

[VeryTangled]

For guideness I recommend a bat and a piniata.

Originally Posted by Flathead-Arm

I'm looking to get as much hp as possible being normally aspirated.

Originally Posted by Flathead-Arm

Is there a list of typical performance machine work that's done to these engines?

Hi Everyone. Flathead-Arm, Welcome to the FordBarn Forums!

For guidelines... I'm not trying to be a dick, but I just gotta say.. My advice is make a pile of money that you hope will do the job. Then add twice that much beside it. Then do your build.

I'd suggest making the engine run with one carb (not that one!) and go from there if you really want to drive it more than 2 miles sometime soon.

[JSeery]

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Some books/reading I would recommend.

[Mike in AZ]

welcome to the 'Barn.....where are you located?...barnes and noble sometimes have flathead books on the shelves...might browse them before you buy....Frank Oddo's book is pretty good.....Vern Tardel wrote a book on the A-V8.....good luck and post some pics if you have 'em...Mike

[Paul Bennett]

It wouldn't hurt to check your local library first. It sucks to buy a book only to find it doesn't suit your needs, and having 'Flathead' in the title means little. Best to turn the pages before you lay out a 20.

[JWL]

I'm sorry J Seery missed reading the half of my book, Flathead Facts, which covered the build of a 304 engine and some of the mods needed to get the power level up.

As for machining, the technical portion of power adding machine work will be the art and science of porting and valve pocket work. Otherwise the machining should be confined to only doing what is necessary. For example, align boring, and deck machining should only be done as required.

A better definition of what you intend the engine to do will help your engine builder give guidance. Getting as much power as possible with epoxy ports and Block-Hard cylinder walls is different from having a reliable engine to drive to the local Big-Boy drive-in eatery.

[JSeery]

Sorry JWL, guess I didn't word that very well! BIG fan of your work!!!

[Bored&Stroked]

Welcome to the Ford Barn! Give us a bit more information on the overall build, type of car, transmission, rear end gears, typical usage --> street and cruise and whether you're planning long or short trips. Another consideration is your own personal level of knowledge about high-performance engines and if you have the tools, time and expertise to put it together. Do you have the time and inclination to learn all the nuances of flatheads and sift through the books, posts and opinions to select the ones that are the best for your situation? (Cause there are a lot - just on this site).

Things to think about: Do you have the necessary micrometers, bore gauges, ring expanders/compressors, rod vise and other such tools (and the knowledge to use them) to check the work of the machine shop and ensure that everything is correct (all main/rod/cam bearing and thrust clearances), etc? If you don't have all the tools and knowledge - and have never put a performance flathead together, then I highly recommend that you find somebody who does and work WITH THEM on your first engine.

Machine Shop Selection: The most important criteria is do they have extensive experience with Flathead Fords and do they have the equipment to do Flathead Ford work correctly? The valve train area is where I've seen the most mistakes - as many shops don't have the correct mandrels, knowledge and or machines (you can't throw a flathead block in the typical 'OHV head machine center' that everybody has). Another area is related to balancing the reciprocating assembly - as how you balance Flathead Rods is not the same as modern engines (where they have balance pads).

Performance Porting and Relieving Work: This is the most complex and problem prone area of a big cubic inch build. Having 304 cubic inches of flow trying to get through a stock block is kind of a waste in my mind. There are not that many shops that know anything about porting a flathead block - and there is a LOT to know. If you're serious about power, then port/bowl work, valve selection and head/chamber work can and should come into play. Consider whether you want to go down this path on your first build? There are plenty of ways to ruin a good flathead block with a porting tool being used by inexperienced hands.

In the end, you'll have three times the time and money you'd spend for a modern small block Chevy or Ford - but that is not the point. The point is that you want to ensure that with that money spent, that you achieve a great final result.

With all this said, I think it could be a great project for you and your son! I'm not trying to discourage you in any way . . . more along the line of making sure you're prepared, honest with yourself and have the biggest chances for success. There will be drama along the way - take your time, ask a lot of questions and you will get through it.

You've come to the right place for knowledge and help - use it the best you can and put the work in on your side . . . and you'll be just fine.

Good Luck!
B&S

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by Flathead-Arm

I'm in the planning stages of building a flathead for a Model A hot rod. Don't know much about them (which is why I decided to go this route). From my research, it seems it best to go with a late 8ba. Since everything will be replaced, with performance products, it doesn't really matter whether to go with Ford or Mercury.
I'm looking to get as much hp as possible being normally aspirated. So I'm going for the Scat 304 kit.
One question I do have is the publications. I see a lot of books out there on the flatheads but I don't wanna buy them all. What's the common census on the best rebuild/modification book?

Thanks

Hi (first name), just a couple questions and a few recommendations.

Do you have a "targeted" HP number?
Do you have a "targeted" budget?

1-I would most definitely avoid the Scat line of cranks but do use their conn rods. Eagles balance-up much easier, have had issues with Scats entire line when balancing. Aviod the Eagle conn rods however, they're a tough fit! For these reasons we put together our own kits.

2-I would stay at the 3.312" bore x 4.250" stroke, no larger, not really that necessary and risk having extra "thin" cylinder walls.

3-I would pin the heads and gaskets to the blocks with some .312" SBC dowel pins, extends head gasket life.

4-Modify the oiling system for full-filtering.

5-Drill the lifter bores to help with adjusting the lifters.

6-Try to find a shop that uses a block-plate for finish honing the bores.

7- If you're "chasing" HP I would use ONLY a metric (1.5, 1.5, 3.0) ring pack, these are available from Ross pistons. There are now new pistons available from Icon, also nice pieces but use a 1/16" x 3/16" ring pack. The metrics would be first choice for power.

8-Many other options, some we like: stainless valves, bronze-lined guides/Viton intake valve stem seals, "original" OEM Johnson adjustable tappets, Fel-Pro gaskets, Neoprene 1 pc front seal, aluminum heads (most times Edelbrock or Offy's). I would use Isky's valve springs on this type build.

9-One of the most important recommendations (here anyway) have it dynoed, it could avoid many headaches for you in the future, plus the "moly" rings will be seated by the time the testing is finished. We will no longer assemble any Flatheads without dynoing it, we still do a few with the machining only where the customer walks out with the pieces and does the final assembly himself, but we don't recommend this method.

10-Pre-assemble/check the valves and springs/spring heights to make certain there will be no issues there later. This is an important area to know about well ahead of time.

Would also use some ARP main studs & head studs to hold it all together!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. With many of the builds we've done (dynoed) with a sort of "limited" budget, we find 150/160 HP and 250#/260# Torque to be some nominal numbers. The pistons/rings are a huge factor in freeing up some HP. The ride in my signature has over 30,000 trouble-free miles on now. Dynoed at 155 HP and 264# Torque, this ride must be close to 4000# driving??

[Flathead-Arm]

Thanks for all the replies. Let me try and answer some questions....

Little about myself: I'm an ex-racer, I'm in Orlando, FL. I used to build and race Porsches, both 911s and 944s. I was/am always a little skeptical about having others work on my cars. So I like to do as much as I can. So I built my own cars. The only thing I would leave to others would be the rollcage and machine work on the engines.

First off, I'm getting all my numbers and plans from researching, this and many other forums. It's my understanding with the package I'll specify below, I should get 250-275 hp. Which is not what I'm focused on. I'm just looking for a good cruising ride that I can take my wife out on a Sat night. But I'm not looking for a dog either.
So my original build plan, goes like this:

Enigine:

• Ford 8ba
• Scat 304ci rotating assembly
• Isky Cam: can't decide on the 400 or 88 (opinions are welcomed)
• Isky adjustable lifters
• Valves: oversized stainless (could use some help here on the spec)
• Isky dual valve springs
• Eldelbrock 74cc heads
• Eldelbrock intake with 3 carb assembly kit
• MSD electronic distributor
• Open Headers

Chassis/Drivetrain:

• 1929 Model A roadster(Brookville)
• Chevy S10 T-5 trans
• Ford 9in rear: either 373 or 411

Machine work:

• bore the cylinders
• deck the surface
• hone the mains
• enlarge the valves
• new seats, 3 angle cut
• relieve the valve to cylinder passage
• relieve the lifter, for easier adj
• port and polish valve ports (I can do this, but even I know when to let an expert with experience do his thing.)
• create in/out passage for external oil filter.
• I was planning on having Harold "Putt" Smith in GA do my machine work. He seems to be the best around the Southeast region.

Thanks,
Armando

[19Fordy]

Just build a mild 276 cu.in. engine and it will give you plenty of zip plus nice highway cruising. 9 inch is overkill. Go with an 8 inch and 3:50 gears. The more radical you make your engine the less "roadable" it becomes, the more heat it generates and the more difficult it will be to have it run cool, especially in the FL heat.

[flatjack9]

I think 250 - 275 hp is a wee bit optimistic.

[Ol' Ron]

Yes, welcome to the barn. Looking through your list of modifications, I'd say you have a oood Bivliie engine there. I don't understand the 304 ci That will reduce reliability some, especially if it lives long enough to get rebuilt. The two cams are as different as night and day. The 400jr is a great short track cam and the 88 is a mild street cam. Dual valve springs will destroy most cams and is only necessary when turning hi RPM's. The S-10 has very poor gear ratios and the 9" is overkill., Especially when it comes to ride quality. Last but not least, tuning this beast to drive to the grocery store is a bitch. Find some local flathead guys and look over their equipment, ask questions and take a ride. Keep in mind, getting over150/175 HP is not easy or cheap with out a blower.

[Flathead-Arm]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Just build a mild 276 cu.in. engine and it will give you plenty of zip plus nice highway cruising. 9 inch is overkill. Go with an 8 inch and 3:50 gears. The more radical you make your engine the less "roadable" it becomes, the more heat it generates and the more difficult it will be to have it run cool, especially in the FL heat.

Brookville kit already comes with the 9".
3:50 seems a little high. How about 3:73 with the 5spd?

[19Fordy]

Slow down, close your wallet and really do your homework before you start buying parts. Building an all out flatty is very expensive. As Ron (above) suggested high horsepower flatheads are not functional for daily drivers. Listen to the advice of Fordbarners who have been building engines for years. It would be a shame to spend really big money to build an engine that looks pretty, sounds awesome but is a "furnace", hard to tune and not usable on a daily basis.

9 inchers are heavy, big and bulky and look out of place on a small hot rod. Tell Brookville you want an 8 inch, but do your homework first. It's so easy to get caught up in the mystic of what you read in the hot rod magazines where you see deep pocket folks building Model A's with 9 inch rears and quick change rears only for the "cool" factor.

For instance, there are several types of T5's with final OD ratios.
http://www.inliners.org/Jack/t5_page.html

Multiply your final OD ratio by your rear end gear ratio and you will get the final highway drive ratio. Example: 3.50x.76=2.66 for highway cruising. 3.73 x .76 =2.83 final drive. Then consider tire size and how that will affect the final drive. http://www.southwestpowersports.com/GEARCHANGE.HTML

Flat Ernie (Fordbarner) is an expert on T5's. There are different types of T-5's. Some are better than others. "World Class" comes to mind.
http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/all-...rld-class.html
Contact Flat Ernie and read post #8 here.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...=flat+ernie+t5

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Slow down and really do your homework before you start buying parts. For instance, there are several types of T5's with final OD ratios.
http://www.inliners.org/Jack/t5_page.html

Multiply your final OD ratio by your rear end gear ratio and you will get the final highway drive ratio. Example: 3.50x.76=2.66 for highway cruising. Then consider tire size and how that will affect the final drive.

Flat Ernie (Fordbarner) is an expert on T5's. Contact him.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...=flat+ernie+t5

Wonderful advice. As 'Ol Ron mentioned, you really need to do some homework. The cams you are picking are as different as night and day and neither needs dual springs.

I know it's hard not to get excited about a build, but before you get too deep in time, materials and money, as everyone has stated, come up with a plan and budget to do what you want.

I think you are aiming a bit high for your HP goal, but I guess it can be done if you have enough money to sink into the project.

[Flathead-Arm]

I've been researching for about a month (this post is part of the research/homework).

This is the first time I heard that the S10 is a poor choice. http://www.flatheadv8.org/t5-swap.htm

If my build is too radical/unreliable, what would be a more reliable build? A 286?

[Midnightcaper]

I say build what u want. Sure u can go with a boring stocker and it will be a lot cheaper. But that's not any fun. It's your wallet no one can tell u how far to open it.

[flatheadmurre]

If you wan´t over 150hp and reliability/drivability go blower !!
Flatheads really like blowers and you don´t need to bore and port it hard to get the power you wan´t.
Next is if you wan´t traditional style or not...
Don´t stare at the hp figures only a 150hp engine will make that light car move as fast as you dare to drive it
Looking forward to a nice build thread

[deuce_roadster]

If it were me, I would rely on people (like Ol Ron) who have built say a minimum of 100 flathead engines more then on articles I have read. There are so many issues not covered in most written magazine articles. One of the many problems with these engines is that the deck in not real thick so decking the block just for the hell of it is not a good idea if it doesn't need to be done. You can't get 50+ years of experience from a tech article.
Do you have a NOS block or French block to start with? If not, search this forum for what is considered necessary testing of a used block. Most people go through many blocks before finding one even usable. Anything can be done if you have enough money so maybe you have no real restraints. I just hope you don't spend a bunch of money and end up disappointed. Good luck on your project, my first car which I stated to build when I was 12 was a Model A with a 39 trans and model A rear end. I "financed" this project mowing lawns.

[Ol' Ron]

There are many T-5 transmissions out ther that are much better than the S-10, I'm using one from an 87 mustang, some use the camarro box. These are much stronger and have better ratios.

[Flathead-Arm]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

There are many T-5 transmissions out ther that are much better than the S-10, I'm using one from an 87 mustang, some use the camarro box. These are much stronger and have better ratios.

You are correct,
I think those are called Word Class T-5. Those are much stronger. But I figured if I'm only 250hp, the WCT-5 would be overkill. Plus I think I would have to change the rear tail section from that of an S-10 anyway.
I was quoted $150 from a junk yard with 15 S10's sitting on the lot. So at that price, why not go for it? If it blows up, I can then get a WCT-5 then use the tail section from the blown tranny. Makes sense???

How about the displacement? Would I be better off going with a 3-5/16 rather than the 3-3/8? Will it make that much of a difference?

Thanks for your input.

[JSeery]

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A T5 is a good transmission behind a flathead, the problem can be the S10 versions have truck gears in them, not high performance gearing. I like the T5z (Ford motorsport version) with close rato gearing paired with a 4:11 rear end.

You can modify the gearing in a Chevy bolt pattern T5 (S10) or work with the Ford pattern case.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

There are many T-5 transmissions out ther that are much better than the S-10, I'm using one from an 87 mustang, some use the camarro box. These are much stronger and have better ratios.

Ol' Ron speaks with much wisdom. The ONLY reason to think "S-10" when talking T5 transmissions is this S-10 TAILSHAFT HOUSING (shown below), which will bolt-on to ANY T5 transmission. It's only purpose is to move the shifter farther forward, which obviously helps guys get the shifter closer to the old Ford shifter location. The S-10 transmissions themselves have awful gear ratios for anything but a wimpy, underpowered powerplant. 1st gear is usually not even usefull. DD



Comparative picture showing shifter locations:

[Flathead-Arm]

Actually the WCT-5 were only in the Mustang GTs. If I look at a mid 80's Mustang and a mid 80's S-10, they are both the NWC and the gear ratio are similar....

[Flathead-Arm]

I imagine the selector shaft would also need to by swapped over.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Flathead-Arm

You are correct,
I think those are called Word Class T-5. Those are much stronger.

"WORLD CLASS (WC)" has nothing to do with STRENGTH. The biggest differences between NON-WORLD CLASS (NWC) and WC transmissions is the different materials used in making the blocker rings (synchros), the difference in types of bearings used between the two, and the means of lubricating the surfaces that 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears ride on, on the main shaft. You will note that the biggest difference in TORQUE ratings is between transmissions with "LOW" 1st gear ratios....and those with "HIGH" 1st gear ratios. That 1st gear torque multiplication (4.03 in an S-10 trans) vs 2.95 in a Camaro, places tremendous forces on the case with the HIGHER-NUMBERED (4.03) ratio. DD

[Flathead-Arm]

So you're saying I should be looking for an 83-84 Mustang, that has the 2.95 1st gear?

[Tim Ayers]

This is turning into a good lesson on T-5's. I didn't know that about Non-WC v. WC. I also didn't realize the S-10 tail shaft bolts on to the other "mid-section" of these boxes.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Flathead-Arm

So you're saying I should be looking for an 83-84 Mustang, that has the 2.95 1st gear?

I'm looking at your tentative package. It gives me a good idea what you're working with. Don't take this wrong, but actually realizing even 200 hp in a flatty does not come easy, nor anything near inexpensively...just sayin'!

You're building an 8BA....not a thing wrong with that. With that in mind, I would suggest that you look for an '83-'87 Camaro NWC T5. They have the 2.95 1st gear gearset. The case will have the familiar Chevy bolt pattern and the input shaft will be 26-spline. I suggest the Camaro for a couple of different reasons, one of which is the ease in adapting it to a flathead. Below is a picture of a Camaro-based T5 that we just adapted to an 8BA in a '35 pick-up. In fact, we modified the rear of the T5 so that we could adapt it to an original Ford torque tube rear end. Click the link below for our complete thread on that build, which includes MUCH basic T5 info. Anyway, note the WILCAP adapter, which is bolted between the 8BA half-bell, and the Camaro T5.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...t5+torque+tube



Your plan above indicates that you want to run a 3.73 or 4.11 rear ratio. Nothing wrong with that either, but ALL the more reason NOT to run an S-10 gearset with a 3.76 or 4.03 1st gear. IF you were to run a 4.11 rear in combination with a 3.76 S-10 1st gear, that works-out to an overall 1st gear ratio of 15.45 to 1. Think about it.....that's worse than the granny 1st gear in an old backwoods lumber truck. And if you get the S-10 with the 4.03 1st gear ratio, that's even worse with an overall 1st gear ratio of 16.56 to 1. Multiply 1st gear times the rear end ratio. Just to give you a realistic idea of why these combinations are awful, most old Fords had a 2.82 1st gear ratio (the Camaro V8 T5 is really close at 2.95 1st gear). Most of those old Fords came with 3.78 rear ratios. That combination works out to a 10.65 to 1 overall 1st gear ratio. I've always felt comfortable aiming for a ratio between 8.5 and 10.5. In fact, these two numbers are very close to what most standard shift automobiles with torquey engines seem to come with from the factory. One more thing to figure into all of this is rear tire diameter, but if you get the gearbox and rear end gearing way off to start with, you're going to be VERY disappointed in the result of an otherwise really-cool-shifting old hot rod. I hope this helps a little. I'll try to answer any questions you might have. The Camaro NWC boxes are still out there at swap meets and on Craigslist. Then, you'll need the S-10 tail housing, along with the correspondingly short shift rod. This stuff bolts right up. DD

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

This is turning into a good lesson on T-5's. I didn't know that about Non-WC v. WC. I also didn't realize the S-10 tail shaft bolts on to the other "mid-section" of these boxes.

For you guys that have an interest in really getting to know MORE about the T5, this guy's link below hits the basics fairly well......some very good reading here! DD

http://lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly...info-page.html

[Midnightcaper]

Moderndriveline makes a tail shaft that will bolt onto a mustang t5 and comes with both mechanical and electronic speedo options.

[19Fordy]

Holy Mackerel V8!

That website is awesome. Thanks.

[Ol' Ron]

I like to build spending the least amount of money. Using a late chevy or Ford T-5. You can bolt that to a flathead for less than 200 bucks. Using a Spicer/dana rear you get post.disk brakes, 3.73 gears for 150-250 bucks. Now if Trump can raise my SS I might go to a blower.

[Flathead-Arm]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

For you guys that have an interest in really getting to know MORE about the T5, this guy's link below hits the basics fairly well......some very good reading here! DD

http://lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly...info-page.html

Half way down the page... What gear ratio is best for me?
Has all the info we've been talking about.

[Flathead-Arm]

However, contrary to my belief I thought the high rear end gear would provide quicker RPMs. But its the opposites. I should be trying to decide between 3.73 or 3.42.

[Flathead-Arm]

This looks good....

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Flathead-Arm

This looks good....

That is NOT a gear combination you want for any kind of high performance. Don't confuse dump trucks with hot rods!

Your best combination is a 2.95 first gear and a 3.73 to 4.11 rear end gear. Look at the gearing on any of the high performance cars, Camaros , Mustangs, etc. On the mustangs the factory 1st gearing tended to be in the 3.35 range and the aftermarket upgrades were 2.95.

[Bored&Stroked]

Additional Comments . . .

Given that you'll never achieve anywhere near 250 HP with this engine - why make the "big cubic inches" your goal? A well built flathead that makes 150 HP in a light coupe will perform beyond your expectations.

1) Bore: There is no reason to go beyond 3 5/16 bore. Save some block meat for a potential future rebuild. I never go to 3 3/8 for anything on the street - makes no sense.

2) Cubic Inches: A real nice combination is a 3 5/16 bore and 4 1/8 stroke - this is 284 cubic inches. With the right combination of parts, you'll find this to be a great street combination.

3) Cam: I'm not a big fan of either cam . . . for me, I'd run a Potvin 3/8 in that cubic inch range. Another popular cam is the L100 or Kiwi100.

4) Carbs: You'll probably find that for a stout street engine, that two carbs will probably run better and be easier to tune that three. I'd probably run an Edelbrock Slingshot manifold and two 97's or two 48's. You could even use a complete setup from Edelbrock (with their 94's) - they make good stuff and support their products well. You'll find that 97's are a bit easier to tune . . . but that is just personal preference.

5) Porting: It is one thing to polish the ports and clean up the bowls (street port), a very different thing to dramatically increase port size and flow. It is easy to "hit water" on the intakes if you're a newbie . . . as there are some real 'thin places' that you'd need to know about. I wouldn't recommend more than a street port for your setup anyway - unless you plan to spin the thing beyond 4500 rpm regularly (not many do that!). If you're not really experienced in porting in general, you may do more harm than good.

6) Ignition: Don't run a 49-53 stock distributor - is junk. There are plenty of options, you might want to chat with "Bubba" - he is one of the ignition gurus on this site. Me, I like magnetos - but that is just me. There are a lot of dual point Mallory setups that run well on 49-53 engines, converted SBC distributors . . . many options.

7) Transmissions: As many noted, the S-10 gear sets are almost useless. Also, having a .72 or .82 overdrive will result in a reasonable RPM drop in overdrive. Personally, I like the .82 - then I setup my final gear ratios and tire sizes to match.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JSeery

That is NOT a gear combination you want for any kind of high performance. Don't confuse dump trucks with hot rods!

Your best combination is a 2.95 first gear and a 3.73 to 4.11 rear end gear. Look at the gearing on any of the high performance cars, Camaros , Mustangs, etc. On the mustangs the factory 1st gearing tended to be in the 3.35 range and the aftermarket upgrades were 2.95.

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Additional Comments . . .

Transmissions: As many noted, the S-10 gear sets are almost useless. Also, having a .72 or .82 overdrive will result in a reasonable RPM drop in overdrive. Personally, I like the .82 - then I setup my final gear ratios and tire sizes to match.

JSeery and Bored&Stroked in the above two posts are giving you some really valid advice when it comes to understanding the WHYs of making decisions regarding gear ratios. Ratio selection can make or break the enjoyment of, or even the useability of a vehicle. It is a subject that can go very "wrong" suddenly..... if a guy just starts throwing parts together 'cuz they were what he happened to purchase on the cheap, or because he read some ill-informed old wives' tales in some old magazines.

[38bill]

I have a S10 T5 but I am running tall tires and a 3:54 banjo rear end. Many feel that the gears are to low but I think it makes it easy to drive in traffic. A little more shifting maybe but once in overdrive who cares. I wouldn't use a S10 T5 with 4.11's though. If you have the cash, a new TKO-500 would be nice. They give you options for speedo senders and shifter locations. They are also stronger. Used T5's are not really cheap anymore and then you would probably want to rebuild it anyway.

[flatjack9]

I use the aluminum 3 speed Ford OD so I don't need any adapter. I've got a 3.70 rear axle with 225-15 rear tires. At 2500 rpm, I'm doing 73 mph. Love the combo and the shifter is almost exactly in the same location as the stock 39 lever.

[Tim Ayers]

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Originally Posted by flatjack9

I use the aluminum 3 speed Ford OD so I don't need any adapter. I've got a 3.70 rear axle with 225-15 rear tires. At 2500 rpm, I'm doing 73 mph. Love the combo and the shifter is almost exactly in the same location as the stock 39 lever.

Flatjack:

Can these be adapted to closed drive or do you have to run them open?

Thanks,

Tim

[flatjack9]

They can be adapted to a closed driveline. I've seen them for the Model A and I'm sure someone is doing them for V-8's. Probably do a search.

[scooder]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

They can be adapted to a closed driveline. I've seen them for the Model A and I'm sure someone is doing them for V-8's. Probably do a search.

Would it not be exactly the same job for Model A and V8? You can use Ford V8 transmission in a Model A, at the back of the trans nothing changes, just plop the Model A torque tube straight in.
Martin.

[scooder]

As for gear ratios, in my opinion the 2.95 first gear coupled with a 4.11 rear would be hard to beat. With this combination, in first gear it feels just like a stock early Ford trans, then you have a ratio split on your way through the gears, in fourth is exactly the same as Ford V8 (1:1) and an overdrive with fifth.
It just don't get better than that!
For those using the S10 granny first transmissions and say they're happy with it really need to take a flathead for a good round town drive with the 2.95 - 4.11 combo, it'll feel like a little rocket ship.
As double D stated, the right combo can really make a car. Difference between being "it works fine, nice" to "I wanna go, please let me drive it again, please. Aw go on, I won't break it, honest!"
Martin.

[JSeery]

Martin, LOL, good description!

[Flathead-Arm]

How about just getting rid of all the guess work and getting this kit with a 3.42 diff...

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Tremec...it,107160.html

[Ol' Ron]

The biggest problem we make is, Making decisions with out all the facts. Some of us have the experience here of all the mistakes we made when building Hot Rods for the past 60 years. These junk yard builds were inexpensive to us, because we didn't have any money in the first place. Today, junkyard build are very difficult. Not many yards let you browse the place looking for parts. Not much old stuff left anyway, the scrapers get what isn't sell able. In fact I get quite a bit of stuff from the scrappers. The fact that we "old timers" are so smart is because we made so many mistakes.. once you make the plunge, you have to live with it, and the $$$$$. So listen to these guys, what we tell you was learned through their mistakes.

[Flathead-Arm]

Here is another solution.... getting a salvage yard Mustang T5. Then adding a tailhousing that's meant for it....

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Techn...ailhousing.htm

[rotorwrench]

Another thing to think about that I haven't seen mention of is fit. Model As have a very tight fit in the fire wall to radiator space. Using the 8BA is good for trans choices but may need some mods for the front end to make it fit better in a model A. Considering this before you get too far down the road is a good idea. You can build the front exactly like a 59 or earlier series 24 stud motor but you have to choose parts carefully to get you where you want to go. The 8RT truck type water pumps take up more space than the early 37 through 48 pumps do. Some folks prefer the crab type front mount distributor and some prefer the more conventional design like a modified Chevy or Mopar type. The crab is a better fit for water pump belt clearance. You can use an earlier 59 series type cam in an 8BA to take advantage of the crab fit but you will have to make that decision before you buy a cam.

[Ol' Ron]

You can also use a SBC distributor with the early pumps. Knowledge is power. You can accomplish almost everything with Ford Barn

[mountstimothy0]

My wife bought me the How to Rebuild and Modify Ford Flathead V8 engines by Mike Bishop and Vern Tardel. Thanks JSeery for the recommendation greatly appreciated. It was the only one on the shelf at Barnes and Noble

Sent from my LG-K371 using Tapatalk

[Flathead-Arm]

OK so I got a line on Chevy T5 out of a 91 Camaro V8 with 111K. Couple of questions:

1. Does anyone know the gear ratio on them? The Mustangs and S10s are posted everywhere, but its difficult finding info on Camaros.
2. Are all V8 Camaros WC? The only way I can tell is by looking at the front cap by the input shaft. But this guy only has pictures of it with the bell housing still attached.
3 What's a fair price?

Thanks,
Armando

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Flathead-Arm

OK so I got a line on Chevy T5 out of a 91 Camaro V8 with 111K. Couple of questions:

1. Does anyone know the gear ratio on them? The Mustangs and S10s are posted everywhere, but its difficult finding info on Camaros.
2. Are all V8 Camaros WC? The only way I can tell is by looking at the front cap by the input shaft. But this guy only has pictures of it with the bell housing still attached.
3 What's a fair price?

Thanks,
Armando

Armando.........I've looked on the list in the link below. Ironically, it does NOT show an ID # for a 1991 Camaro V8. It does show 1992 "F car" which I believe is Camaro. It shows that trans to have the 2.95 1st gear. I BELIEVE that if the input shaft has 26-splines (where the clutch disc rides), that it SHOULD be the 2.95 gearset. Click this link just below for that list of tag ID #s.

http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Bo...T5-ID-Tags.htm

This list shows the number stamped on the METAL tag that came on every transmission when it was assembled at the factory. That tag IDs the year, application and gear ratio of that trans. See the picture below for what these tags look like. Ask your guy if the tag is still attached under a bolt on that Camaro trans. If so, take the last three digits and compare with the list in the link above. The numbers that are cast onto the main case and tailshaft housing HAVE NOTHING to do with the ID numbers that de-code your trans. The ID code will only come from that metal tag...IF it is still attached. If there is no tag, that transmission has likely been apart for some QUESTIONABLE reason.



Be careful......I'd have to ask the seller WHY is he selling this trans (like...is it broken)?

To answer one of your questions, 1983-'87 Camaro T5s were NWC. Supposedly, the '88 and later V8 Camaro T5s were WC. DD