Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

[Kilohertz]

Originally Posted by Ken Henry

I used ‘classic braid’ from Painless Wiring. It has a dull finish like cloth and I’m really happy with it. Unfortunately it’s not cheap and it’s best to buy a few different diameters.

Thanks Ken, Awesome recommendation. I looked it up, it looks awesome and our local supplier carries it in stock. I ordered the whole chassis kit which has a wide variety of sizes, $240 CDN, p/n 70970.

Cheers

[Ken Henry]

Awesome! I hope you like it too! I think it looks so much better than the plastic corrugated stuff. I usually cut it and punch holes w a junk soldering iron, since it IS stranded plastic despite looking like cloth

[Kilohertz]

I know I have published a number of these updates, but it's just so much fun seeing this engine run as well as it does...can hardly wait to drive it in the spring.

If anyone wants to try this I am willing to help out with the details...while it's still fresh in this old brain.

Cheers

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7h501pl5cp..._1481.MOV?dl=0

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by Ken Henry

Here are a few pictures of my setup. The throttle bodies are Ducati S4R and have one injector each that squirts in below the throttle plate. I swapped the green top Ducati injectors for yellow Subaru injectors that flow ~50% more fuel, as I found the duty cycle was close to maxing out on the originals. Megasquirt is a little tricky to get the hang of and uses TunerStudio running on a laptop for tuning. I bought the 'full' version for a few dollars and it has an autotune function that helps get the fuel map dialed in. There is no way I could got it working without that feature! Other hassles:
running a fuel return line, installing a high pressure electric fuel pump (I put mine in the stock tank), and fitting the trigger wheel to the 8ba crankshaft pulley. I originally tried to run the ignition with Petronix in the distributor and Megasquirt as the coil driver, but couldn't get it to work well. The Ford EDIS system is a little older now but very robust and works great. This was my first conversion. I've since done the same on my Corvair and it was much easier thanks to lessons learned! Each conversion has to be at least $1500, though I don't dare try to add up receipts for any of this. I'm on the younger side for the flathead crowd at 42, which might explain part of the draw to fuel injection; tired of fuel drying up in the bowls or percolating on a hot day and flooding the engine! The driveability is about the same otherwise. Power is up slightly but that's more attributable to going from the stock single to dual intake manifold I think... Ken


DEB4B753-9179-4C19-A7A7-0254C2A6C133 by kenhenry_06268, on Flickr

Great setup Ken! How did you connect the throttle bodies to your manifold? Saw in another picture that it's a normal flathead 2-carb manifold. What 3-hole carb adaptors did you use and how did you attach the throttle bodies?

[Ken Henry]

Thanks! They are Thickstun adapters that I got on ebay, designed for mounting a holley or stromberg 3 bolt carb onto a one barrel intake manifold (2 bolt). I had a friend in the machine shop cut off the mounting ears on the 1 barrel side and turn down the inside and outside diameter to match the throttle bodies I had in mine. The throttle bodies are mounted to the adapter with rubber hoses and hose clamps, similar to some motorcycle setups.


With two one barrel throttle bodies squirting into both planes of the intake manifold, both injectors have to operate at the same time (once for every ignition event) to get an even fuel distribution to the cylinders. There is simply not much time to get enough fuel in at WOT and "high" RPMs (4000 rpm = 3.75 ms between ignition events). You can use high-flowing injectors but they can have trouble idling well due to the very short on time. I solved this by adding a set of secondary injectors, perched above the velocity stacks, that come on when needed. Better yet would be a system with 2 barrel throttle bodies that maintains the separation between intake planes. The you have 7.5 ms to get the fuel in...



6281357E-DA50-4FCF-AA98-DFAC266ABB9D by kenhenry_06268, on Flickr


85263390-22BA-409C-B463-E67B4E81D095 by kenhenry_06268, on Flickr

[Kilohertz]

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That looks awesome Ken, nice job!

[HotRodmicky]

Wow!

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by Ken Henry

Thanks! They are Thickstun adapters that I got on ebay, designed for mounting a holley or stromberg 3 bolt carb onto a one barrel intake manifold (2 bolt). I had a friend in the machine shop cut off the mounting ears on the 1 barrel side and turn down the inside and outside diameter to match the throttle bodies I had in mine. The throttle bodies are mounted to the adapter with rubber hoses and hose clamps, similar to some motorcycle setups.


With two one barrel throttle bodies squirting into both planes of the intake manifold, both injectors have to operate at the same time (once for every ignition event) to get an even fuel distribution to the cylinders. There is simply not much time to get enough fuel in at WOT and "high" RPMs (4000 rpm = 3.75 ms between ignition events). You can use high-flowing injectors but they can have trouble idling well due to the very short on time. I solved this by adding a set of secondary injectors, perched above the velocity stacks, that come on when needed. Better yet would be a system with 2 barrel throttle bodies that maintains the separation between intake planes. The you have 7.5 ms to get the fuel in...

Awesome! Thanks for the additional information. Easy to see how that interface would work well. Just need to find a local shop to do the work to match the throttle bodies.

[Detroit Flathead]

Kilohertz,
I was not expecting to find this cool thread, but I'm certainly glad I did. I'd love to do something similar on my 8Ba. I'm going to have to dig deeper into this. Nice work.

[Kilohertz]

Originally Posted by Detroit Flathead

Kilohertz,
I was not expecting to find this cool thread, but I'm certainly glad I did. I'd love to do something similar on my 8Ba. I'm going to have to dig deeper into this. Nice work.

Thanks for the compliment, much appreciated. I have made a lot more progress and will make another update once it's all back together. I decided to strip the injection system off to paint the engine and firewall then start to reassemble it, permanently so I can carry on with the main chassis wiring etc. . The computer harness is all installed and looks great, I have a new alternator to mount and a few coolant sensors and electric fan switch to put in, then the rad,....then I should be able to start it again.

Stay tuned.


Cheers

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nj7755ypdh..._1442.MOV?dl=0



https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qv6...ew?usp=sharing

[Ken Henry]

Looks fantastic! Did you end up trying the classic braid wire wrap? I’m having two a “TBI” holley 94 carb tops printed for my setup. Will post back with photos when they arrive.

[Kilohertz]

Originally Posted by Ken Henry

Looks fantastic! Did you end up trying the classic braid wire wrap? I’m having two a “TBI” holley 94 carb tops printed for my setup. Will post back with photos when they arrive.

Thanks Ken,

Yes, classic braid...$240, but there's enough to do several vehicles, maybe more. It's best cut with a hot wire as scissors just mangle the ends.

cheers

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

My question was posted for the OP.
Are you speaking for the OP?

I am speaking for the Forum discussion thread. This is a forum. The OP stated he wanted to start a discussion. Everybody joins in to a discussion. You have the option to send a personal message if you don't want others to comment.

[Kilohertz]

Originally Posted by Ken Henry

Awesome! I hope you like it too! I think it looks so much better than the plastic corrugated stuff. I usually cut it and punch holes w a junk soldering iron, since it IS stranded plastic despite looking like cloth

Just re-read the thread and missed this, great idea, I was going to build a hot wire setup but I have a number of Weller guns here and will try those first, maybe mod one to use hot nichrome wire.

cheers

[Ken Henry]

And here we have a Holley 94 carb partially converted to a TBI unit using a custom 3d printed air horn. The material is nylon PA12, resistant to high temperatures and very strong and rigid. It cost about $75 to be done by a commercial printer (Shapeways.com). This setup will allow me to retain the stock choke cable to control the idle speed and take full advantage of the dual plane manifold design. A fuel rail will be mounted above the air horn with two fuel injectors in it sort of like a GM TBI. More pictures to come in the next few days once I get the fuel rail cut and drilled!! Ken


B74D07A6-EFF3-48E0-9606-FAC2E0025CCE by kenhenry_06268, on Flickr


CF8EA0E2-67E9-4BB2-94E9-6F0AF501FB06 by kenhenry_06268, on Flickr


02863C07-B01E-46DA-869B-8337226745E0 by kenhenry_06268, on Flickr

[Kilohertz]

That's brilliant Ken! Nice work!!

What injectors are you planning to use and what fuel pressure? Is it MegaSquirt control?

Looking forward to seeing the next phase.

cheers

[Ken Henry]

Thanks! The fuel injectors are high impedance from a BMW S1000RR motorcycle and supposedly flow 22.8 pounds/hr (240 cc/min) at my fuel pressure of 43.5 psi. I will measure it confirm though, as well as estimate the dead time since that is an important parameter for megasquirt. I'll will continue using my dual carb intake (so 4 injectors total) and distributorless ignition system with the megasquirt controller. Ken

[Algoma56]

Thanks Kilohertz for directing me to this thread. So much ingenuity, and crafty ways of adapting parts to each other.

[ken-r-mer]

Since 2015 I've been running 2 - 1988 Ford Escort 2.0 liter TBI's on my flathead V8 with mega squirt II software. I used 3/8" thick aluminum plate adapters mounted to 2 Stromberg 97 bases on an Offenhauser super dual manifold.

I figured a standard 239 cu inch flathead is 3.92 liters, so 2 TBI's from 1988 2.0 liter 4 cylinder engines would be a good match.

Oh and an OEM TBI will run about $150 on EBAY....well it did in 2019.

[Kilohertz]

ken-r-mer,

That sounds cool, could you post some pics? Would love to see it.

Cheers