New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?

[NealinCA]

Or will it? I just saw this...

"Super Bell Axle Company is proud to introduce to you our newest I-Beam that you have been asking for. A brand new 1932 Heavy Axle built to stock specifications. This original design would be a great piece for a bone stock restoration or any traditional hot rod.Made from 65-45-12 ductile iron, Our newest I-beam has the strength and durability that you have come to expect from Super Bell Axle Company. You only have to buy a quality parts once. Available in 2'' or 2 1/4'' perch boss, measures 50 1/2 from kingpin to kingpin and 36 1/2 perch to perch. Plain & Drilled In stock Chrome will be available in a few weeks. Starting at $309.00"


My first thought was kinda negative...

I am drawn to early Ford restorations and period correct hot rods partly because they can't be built from a catalog. Either you need to start with a complete car or hunt the swapmeets for the correct parts. Now more and more...you can just order many of these parts. 32's for example...frame rails, K-member, body, dash, firewall, grill, front wishbone, not to mention all of the small parts...but now the front axle?

Maybe it's just like all of those other repro 32 parts. There will still be a place for original parts and those who enjoy them...and those Check-Book builders may leave the old junk for the those of us who care about it.

Your thoughts?

Neal

[Tman]

I think it will still be a niche product. 32 folks and traditional rodders. I like that it is available, I still enjoy the hunt for Henrys steel.

[Pete]

Ductile iron?????
I don't think any racing association will allow that.
I sure would not trust my life and all the others on the road to cast iron running gear parts.
And yes I know they have been making hot rod axles like that for a long time and YES some have broken.

[Kahuna]

Someone must have thought that is was a good (profitable) item to produce. I don't see the need for it, but some will, I'm sure. My experience with after-market, reproduced parts is not too good. Some fit, most don't, and some kind of fit, almost fit, need a bunch of work to fit. To me the original stuff is the best, but I don't have deep pockets
Jim

[Jack E/NJ]

http://www.dura-bar.com/products/65-45-12c.cfm

Jack E/NJ

[deuce lover]

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Fords axles were forged which allowed them to flex.Ductile iron is stiff and has no flex at all.They just will break if pushed to the limit.Just my thoughts.Also there is no such thing as a heavy axle.Whoever coined that phrase made it up.32 axles were all the same and a different design from 33-36 axles.

[Ross in East Texas]

Ductile iron, also known as ductile cast iron, nodular cast iron, spheroidal graphite iron, spherulitic graphite cast iron and SG iron, is a type of cast iron invented in 1943 by Keith Millis. While most varieties of cast iron are brittle, ductile iron is much more flexible and elastic, due to its nodular graphite inclusions.
On October 25, 1949, Keith Dwight Millis, Albert Paul Gagnebin and Norman Boden Pilling received US patent 2,485,760 on a Cast Ferrous Alloy for ductile iron production via magnesium treatment. Ductile Iron does have flexibility and can be very strong?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ross in East Texas

Ductile iron, also known as ductile cast iron, nodular cast iron, spheroidal graphite iron, spherulitic graphite cast iron and SG iron, is a type of cast iron invented in 1943 by Keith Millis. While most varieties of cast iron are brittle, ductile iron is much more flexible and elastic, due to its nodular graphite inclusions.
On October 25, 1949, Keith Dwight Millis, Albert Paul Gagnebin and Norman Boden Pilling received US patent 2,485,760 on a Cast Ferrous Alloy for ductile iron production via magnesium treatment. Ductile Iron does have flexibility and can be very strong?

Right on and good info Ross.
Your last sentence says it except that it is nowhere near as strong as a
alloy steel forging...Ductile iron front axles have been known to break as have ductile iron crankshafts such as SCAT brand.
For me for these 2 applications it would be like buying second hand oats.

[Rusty1932]

Right on Deuce Lover!

[Uncle Bob]

I always find these "discussions" interesting. But personal views, no matter our tradition of respecting your "right" to express them, are not very informative other than reflecting on the speaker's beliefs. As for whether it's a "good" idea, that's up to the marketplace. There were probably some naysayers when Brookville introduced their Model A or Deuce roadster bodies.........but based on reality, reflected by market response, Brookville wins that "argument". Likewise for ASC or other manufacturer rails, crossmembers, and so on. It will be the same for these axles. If Slover read the market correctly he'll be rewarded and the buyers will be happy. If he misread the market these will fade away. They're not for everyone, but that's not the point. As folks who value our hobby we should be tickled to death by any signs of prolonged life. We should keep in mind that we are a minority (albeit not one that tugs on the heartstrings of special privelege) and would be better served by sticking together as we will certainly be the ever more frequent target of the eco-nazis (remember, they HATE everything we stand for).

As for the ductile iron axles, those who have a kneejerk negative response about inflexibility should probably learn the definition of the word ductile (partly defined above). As for the examples of the few that have fractured, my recollection is they have all been chromed which can have a negative effect on ductility when done incorrectly (hydrogen embrittlement). If there are some that are not chromed and fractured it would be nice to know about them and if there had been any forensic analysis for the actual cause of the breakage.

[paul2748]

Originally Posted by NealinCA

Or will it? I just saw this...
Maybe it's just like all of those other repro 32 parts. There will still be a place for original parts and those who enjoy them...and those Check-Book builders may leave the old junk for the those of us who care about it.

Your thoughts?

Neal

I like your comment about "check book builders" The fact is, any original 32 part is for a "check book builder" as the price on original parts probably far exceed any repo part (unless you are very lucky in digging out a part no one knows what it is for or is in such bad condition that there is no market for it)

[Payne]

I think it's a good thing because it puts a cap on those outrageous prices an original has fetched in the past. There will always be a market for an original axle, and a very nice original axle will still fetch a very nice price. The great thing now is you wont have to bid against a "check book builder" who needs a '32 axle yesterday, cause his client must have a '32 axle under his car cause all of his rich friends are telling him that's the new cool must have part for your next car.

As for where it ends? It ends when then start reproducing a model 111-40 Grigsby-Grunow Radio for a 1932 Ford.

[X38]

1. The broken cast axles I've seen have all been involved in heavy impacts (crashes with solid objects).

2. They were painted, not chrome.

3. So someone wants to market these stock shape ones, made the same way they've made thousands of other axles. It's their business, literally. Does it really matter?

4. What's this got to do with racing associations?

[Krylon32]

When I asked about why they chose to build this axle, they said that it would probably be used most in conjunction with their suicide style front suspension that they have had for a few years. In defense of the ductile cast axle, I have sold hundreds of Super Bell axles over the years and have yet to have one fail. As for reproducing deuce parts it will only end when there is nothing left.

[GreenMonster48]

I've got to agree with Uncle Bob here.

Unfortunately I own a less popular vehicle and I always seem to be drawn to them. I'm tickled to death whenver I see a new part marketed for my truck.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Repro '32 parts, even the damn good ones like Brookville bodies, have certainly not slowed down the perpetual rise in '32 parts prices...I think they have simply allowed the construction of more cars, both Ford based and entirely repro ones. Correction...they probably HAVE slowed the upward rush somewhat. Imagine what a roadster body or a frame would cost now if there were no repros! Us lunatics will never be comfortable with repro stuff, but we should be thankful someone is happy with them!
Good '32's were worth more than when they were new by the end of WWII...they moved up to more or less typical new car prices (meaning an ordinary person would have had some trouble paying for both a '32 and his family wagon) and stayed there for a while, now they are in higher territory than say an ordinary new Ford.
Parts have gone up a lot more than car, I think, and there really is a shortage there...most good parts have long since been incorporated into a car, and change hands only when a car is rebuilt from say a resto or hotrod into a streetrod.
When I was a kid in the '60's, '32 parts were like $15-20 per lump like a fender or grill...and that was VERY serious money, usually beyond me. Now any serious chunk of '32 steel is in the thousands...

I posted alloy and heat treat info on Ford EE axles on the HAMB once...they put some serious material in those. The most critical forgings like pitman arms were 100% surface tested. Ductile iron can bend under violence, but I think a lot less than a treated forging...
Chroming is apparently not a big issue on these poarticular sorts of steel, from what I've read, but I suspect dropping is...the heat used is surely beyond the heat treat level.

[Joe KCMO]

I believe "ductile" refers to other than cast. Ductile is steel which can be hammered or drawn into wire. I do not believe that definition if of anything like cast iron. It is steel.

[hbleadsled]

Paul, I agree with your thoughts about " check book builders " I try to buy good org. parts.BUT now unless I fine what I need at a swap meet I will buy repro WHY I have recieved JUNK in the mail from parts on ebay ( those guys must have smiled when they got the money order) Harold, central coast Ca.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

Fords axles were forged which allowed them to flex.Ductile iron is stiff and has no flex at all.They just will break if pushed to the limit.Just my thoughts.Also there is no such thing as a heavy axle.Whoever coined that phrase made it up.32 axles were all the same and a different design from 33-36 axles.

I don't think your comment about the '32 axle is accurate

[JM 35 Sedan]

I am personally glad to see any good quality reproduction parts being made for these old Fords and God Bless any of the folks out there who are making these parts in America. When I learn of a new part that's being manufactured for one of my cars, it makes me extremely happy and I don't care if it reduces the value of existing stock parts that some folks are hoarding and/or are asking ridicules prices for. Let the good times roll and keep 'em flat! JMO, J.M.