The Ford Barn

badbones · 01-24-2012, 01:59 AM

I just installed one of the seals in the new drum. I repacked the bearing and dropped it in. I then installed the seal. I think I may have gone a little far with the seal as its about 1/8" below the snap ring.

So my question is should the entire bearing rotate inside or is the seal is against it will it prevent it from rotating. The internal rollers seem to roll fine but its still sticky with the new grease. I cant compare to the other side as I have replaced that drum too. I have not installed that seal as of yet.

Also which way does the key face. I forgot to mark them when I took them off.

Tom Wesenberg · 01-24-2012, 05:51 AM

Can you move the bearing in and out at all? If not you'll have to pull the seal back some. It's been a long time since I messed with the rear drums, but as I recall the taper on the key faced in, to fit the curve at the end of the keyway cut.

badbones · 01-24-2012, 12:39 PM

The bearing does not move front to back. Is there an easy way to move the seal back with out destroying it? It's a pretty snug seal. Was thinking of the one foot drop method but not sure if that wil or damage anything else n the process

Tom Wesenberg · 01-24-2012, 01:18 PM

I don't know of any good way to pull the seal back without destroying it. Since the seal is holding the bearing tight, I doubt dropping it a foot would loosen it. In fact most of the rear wheel seals I've installed had to be sanded before they would even begin to go in without kinking.

Bob C · 01-24-2012, 02:37 PM

As Steve from Bert's said just drop the drum on a concrete floor and the bearing will
push the seal out. If you leave the snap ring in it should just push the seal up to
the snap ring.

Bob

mass A man · 01-24-2012, 02:42 PM

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badbones, I made this mistake ONCE. I ended up destroying the seal to get it out. I prep the new seal for a proper, yet tight fit, I use an old worn out rear bearing for my seal driver, tapping it down with a piece of hardwood and hammer. When I get even NEAR the snap ring groove, I check and double check to drive new seal far enough down past groove just to get the snap ring in. Thinking about the problem you're having, Maybe a "slide-type" dent puller with some kind of custom "end" on it would pull up your seal a bit. I guess maybe I'm only dreaming. I wouldn't reccomend any dropping of the drum, or even putting a torch to it. You don't want to hurt the integrity of the drum for a $4.00 part.

Pilotdave · 01-24-2012, 03:36 PM

I'm with those who are suggesting replacing that seal with a new one. I just went through the seal removal game - until someone invents a seal pulling tool I don't see any safe way to get the seal out without destroying it.

I'm close to reinstalling the bearings and seals on my car - while it's too bad that you are having this problem, thank you for posting about it as doing so should save me from repeating your mistake!

Jim Parker Toronto · 01-24-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbones

The bearing does not move front to back. Is there an easy way to move the seal back with out destroying it? It's a pretty snug seal. Was thinking of the one foot drop method but not sure if that wil or damage anything else n the process

I don't recommend this fix, but go ahead. What have you got to loose... besides a $100 drum and $75 labor charge to mount the new drum and turn it . Let us know how it works out for you.... If you do drop it on floor, be sure to check for cracks and out of round before you install it!

silvertop · 01-24-2012, 04:52 PM

I am viewing a cut away view of the bearing in the hub. It is showing a space between the snap ring and the seal of what looks to be about 1/8". The bearings are in a cage and do not rotate against the seal or the hub. The view shows the seal limiting the lateral movement of the bearing.

I have installed the seals this way in the past and have had no problems.

badbones · 01-24-2012, 05:41 PM

Silver top

I did order a new seal and plan to install the other one tonight in the ther drum. The rollers in the bearing do roll, but the cage they are in dont. The red bearing grease I used is sticky and wonder if that's preventing movement if the age should rotate that hold the rollers. There is no movement front to back of the age. I just don't want to remove and replace the seal if I don't have to. When I removed the seal I found that a large flat nail puller worked great. It gave me leverage and was able to pop the old seal out in abut a minute or so.

silvertop · 01-24-2012, 05:54 PM

The cage must not rotate, if it did, it would wear the hub and the seal. I have found wear like this on bearings that have failed, locking up in the cage and rotating the complete assembly. That gets ugly!

Pilotdave · 01-24-2012, 06:03 PM

Thinking more about this....why does the bearing cage need to be free to move? If the rollers are free to move, then they will spin as the hub rotates on the axle. And, as silvertop suggests, a rotating cage would wear either the seal or the hub. If so, then why would there be a need to move the seal back out to the snap ring? Just questions from a relative newbie!

silvertop · 01-24-2012, 06:15 PM

The illustration that I refered to is on page 23 of a publication copyright, 1928 by The Norman W. Henley Publishing Co. and has been reprinted by Floyd Clymer. (Clymer Repair Manuals)

Pilotdave, you have it right, the lateral movement needs to be controled, and the illustration confirms that.

Tom Wesenberg · 01-24-2012, 06:23 PM

If the cage can't rotate, neither can the rollers.

d.j. moordigian · 01-24-2012, 07:08 PM

Tom,
I would like to see the bearing "float" say .010". But even if the cage is tight,
the rollers are still going to rotate. Are WE missing something?

No shot, just thinking. Dudley

mass A man · 01-24-2012, 07:20 PM

Why, then is the darn snap ring groove so far away? And like Tom said, the rollers won't move either. I know some rear bearings have the roller "pins" that ride in the holes of the cage, whereas I think the re-pro's are solid cages.

Pilotdave · 01-24-2012, 07:44 PM

If the the cage has to rotate in order for the rollers to rotate, wouldn't that wear out the end plate (or some other vital part of the assembly) of the cage in short order?

Tom Wesenberg · 01-24-2012, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilotdave

If the the cage has to rotate in order for the rollers to rotate, wouldn't that wear out the end plate (or some other vital part of the assembly) of the cage in short order?

No, because there is really no side pressure on the rollers or cage. If the cage is stout enough you might try to loosen it by poking a screwdriver through from the other side and tap on the inner edge of the cage by the seal. My guess is the cage might bend before the seal moves though.

01-24-2012, 01:59 AM	#1
badbones Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 29	Rear drum bearing and seal I just installed one of the seals in the new drum. I repacked the bearing and dropped it in. I then installed the seal. I think I may have gone a little far with the seal as its about 1/8" below the snap ring. So my question is should the entire bearing rotate inside or is the seal is against it will it prevent it from rotating. The internal rollers seem to roll fine but its still sticky with the new grease. I cant compare to the other side as I have replaced that drum too. I have not installed that seal as of yet. Also which way does the key face. I forgot to mark them when I took them off.

01-24-2012, 05:51 AM	#2
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal Can you move the bearing in and out at all? If not you'll have to pull the seal back some. It's been a long time since I messed with the rear drums, but as I recall the taper on the key faced in, to fit the curve at the end of the keyway cut.

01-24-2012, 12:39 PM	#3
badbones Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 29	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal The bearing does not move front to back. Is there an easy way to move the seal back with out destroying it? It's a pretty snug seal. Was thinking of the one foot drop method but not sure if that wil or damage anything else n the process

01-24-2012, 01:18 PM	#4
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal I don't know of any good way to pull the seal back without destroying it. Since the seal is holding the bearing tight, I doubt dropping it a foot would loosen it. In fact most of the rear wheel seals I've installed had to be sanded before they would even begin to go in without kinking.

01-24-2012, 02:37 PM	#5
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,755	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal As Steve from Bert's said just drop the drum on a concrete floor and the bearing will push the seal out. If you leave the snap ring in it should just push the seal up to the snap ring. Bob

01-24-2012, 02:42 PM	#6
mass A man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Danvers, Ma. Posts: 712	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) badbones, I made this mistake ONCE. I ended up destroying the seal to get it out. I prep the new seal for a proper, yet tight fit, I use an old worn out rear bearing for my seal driver, tapping it down with a piece of hardwood and hammer. When I get even NEAR the snap ring groove, I check and double check to drive new seal far enough down past groove just to get the snap ring in. Thinking about the problem you're having, Maybe a "slide-type" dent puller with some kind of custom "end" on it would pull up your seal a bit. I guess maybe I'm only dreaming. I wouldn't reccomend any dropping of the drum, or even putting a torch to it. You don't want to hurt the integrity of the drum for a $4.00 part.

01-24-2012, 03:36 PM	#7
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal I'm with those who are suggesting replacing that seal with a new one. I just went through the seal removal game - until someone invents a seal pulling tool I don't see any safe way to get the seal out without destroying it. I'm close to reinstalling the bearings and seals on my car - while it's too bad that you are having this problem, thank you for posting about it as doing so should save me from repeating your mistake!

01-24-2012, 04:52 PM	#9
silvertop Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: pittsburgh, Pa. Posts: 64	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal I am viewing a cut away view of the bearing in the hub. It is showing a space between the snap ring and the seal of what looks to be about 1/8". The bearings are in a cage and do not rotate against the seal or the hub. The view shows the seal limiting the lateral movement of the bearing. I have installed the seals this way in the past and have had no problems. __________________ The only thing that can beat an attempt----is a failure!!!!

01-24-2012, 05:41 PM	#10
badbones Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 29	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal Silver top I did order a new seal and plan to install the other one tonight in the ther drum. The rollers in the bearing do roll, but the cage they are in dont. The red bearing grease I used is sticky and wonder if that's preventing movement if the age should rotate that hold the rollers. There is no movement front to back of the age. I just don't want to remove and replace the seal if I don't have to. When I removed the seal I found that a large flat nail puller worked great. It gave me leverage and was able to pop the old seal out in abut a minute or so.

01-24-2012, 05:54 PM	#11
silvertop Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: pittsburgh, Pa. Posts: 64	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal The cage must not rotate, if it did, it would wear the hub and the seal. I have found wear like this on bearings that have failed, locking up in the cage and rotating the complete assembly. That gets ugly! __________________ The only thing that can beat an attempt----is a failure!!!!

01-24-2012, 06:03 PM	#12
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal Thinking more about this....why does the bearing cage need to be free to move? If the rollers are free to move, then they will spin as the hub rotates on the axle. And, as silvertop suggests, a rotating cage would wear either the seal or the hub. If so, then why would there be a need to move the seal back out to the snap ring? Just questions from a relative newbie!

01-24-2012, 06:15 PM	#13
silvertop Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: pittsburgh, Pa. Posts: 64	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal The illustration that I refered to is on page 23 of a publication copyright, 1928 by The Norman W. Henley Publishing Co. and has been reprinted by Floyd Clymer. (Clymer Repair Manuals) Pilotdave, you have it right, the lateral movement needs to be controled, and the illustration confirms that. __________________ The only thing that can beat an attempt----is a failure!!!!

01-24-2012, 06:23 PM	#14
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal If the cage can't rotate, neither can the rollers.

01-24-2012, 07:08 PM	#15
d.j. moordigian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fresno, Ca. Posts: 3,636	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal Tom, I would like to see the bearing "float" say .010". But even if the cage is tight, the rollers are still going to rotate. Are WE missing something? No shot, just thinking. Dudley

01-24-2012, 07:20 PM	#16
mass A man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Danvers, Ma. Posts: 712	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal Why, then is the darn snap ring groove so far away? And like Tom said, the rollers won't move either. I know some rear bearings have the roller "pins" that ride in the holes of the cage, whereas I think the re-pro's are solid cages.

01-24-2012, 07:44 PM	#17
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,226	Re: Rear drum bearing and seal If the the cage has to rotate in order for the rollers to rotate, wouldn't that wear out the end plate (or some other vital part of the assembly) of the cage in short order?