Carburetor Remanufactured

[Mitch Bunkin in PA]

Even though my knowledge of Model “A’s” is very basic, I have this strong desire to get my 1930 Town Sedan back as close as possible to the way it was in 1930. That’s what motivated me to respond to the ad in the MARC magazine of Neal Frank, AKA “PASSING GAS CARBURETION.” (I also, recall Ford Barn carburetor comments by Pete Mendola in 2012) As we’re only 12 miles apart, Mr. Frank invited me to visit. In a lengthy conversation Neal explained the difference between remanufacturing (his specialty) and rebuilding/restoring a carburetor. I decided to ask Neal to remanufacture my carb. This takes 15 to 20 hours and costs 2 to 3 times more than a rebuild. Using this remanufacturing process Mr. Frank can resurrect a carb and the result is a unit of the proper year and month, functioning EXACTLY as designed. Neal usually has several phone conversations with the customer as the job progresses. Obviously prices vary depending on the condition of the carb. At completion, the customer receives a 35 point shop check-off list as well as a 5 to 8 page written report.
Neal uses original blueprints and a unique set of tooling & jigs for his milling machine. With my Zenith-2, Neal had to true up the joining surfaces of the carb as they did not meet his minimum requirement of a maximum .004 gap. All housing surfaces were resurfaced. All jet threads repaired/replaced and seats resurfaced. Neal finds that many new jets and original jets are not to specifications. The orifices must be concave and exactly the proper dimension. Jets must be exactly the proper height relative to the venturi and flow tested precisely at proper millimeters per minute. The float is buoyancy tested and weighed. Neal insists float weight must be within .1 gram of his requirement. He also resurfaced the integral seat of the gas control valve. This is only a tiny sample of the many procedures performed on my carb during the remanufacturing process. Besides frequent cleaning and bench testing during the process, Neal drive tested the carb traveling more than 60 miles and duplicating many different situations such as emergency stopping at an intersection, etc. This is followed by a third, 24 hour cool-down test.
My car now runs like new. The feeling of enhanced power is impressive and I can go up most hills in third gear. It doesn’t stall or oscillate at intersections (engine idle stays smooth) and it doesn’t leak even if I forget to turn off the gas line petcock when parked. I put this on the forum, because Neal doesn’t use computers very much. If you are a purist interested in a perfect or show quality remanufacturing, rather than a rebuild, Passing Gas is the place to go. If you send Neal a stamped, self addressed envelope, he’ll send you a copy of his 35 point remanufacturing check list. His address is 379 Sweetbriar Road, Perkasie, PA 18944.

[Mikeinnj]

What is the difference in price between remanufacturing (his specialty) and rebuilding/restoring a carburetor ?

[Russ/40]

You have said a lot, but not meaningful for a lot of us without the price. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt he has a beautiful product, but most of us don't have bottomless wallets, and go for what's practical, not what's possible to do. How much?

[Mike V. Florida]

I see where the price guys are coming from, did you pay 200 or 2000 dollars to get that work done?

I would think the price would have to be dependant on what he finds. If no milling of the joining surfaces and no threaded sections need to be replaced the job would be way cheaper than one that needs that work done. I'm just guessing but it makes sense it me that more work would mean higher prices.

With that said there still should be an "average" price of the work he has billed for during the past year.

[luckyal]

Can you tell us within $ 100 what you paid ??
Al

[Rock Hornbuckle]

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Sounds like a very wise approach to making an original Zenith perform well. As in all things in life.....we get what we pay for. Can't drive a Duesenberg for the price of a Volkswagen. Although I've noticed, that when I really had to have something, I somehow found a way to get it.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Russ/40

You have said a lot, but not meaningful for a lot of us without the price. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt he has a beautiful product, but most of us don't have bottomless wallets, and go for what's practical, not what's possible to do. How much?

I carry Chief's old wallet, Russ, I just looked, and it's got a REAL shallow bottom! MAN! I just spent $50.00 for coolant & oil to get this trap fired up! Contrary to rumors, I AM POOR! Please send even day old TWINKIES. Bill W.

[Mike V. Florida]

I don't know if this is the right place/time for this or not but I got this off the old model-a.org site,

[Terry, NJ]

Mitch Where have you been? I was wondering about you. I am working on resurrecting a Mod B carb I aquired and I was considering putting it on my friend's Bridgeport and recutting the gasket surfaces just for the reasons that you mentioned. This carb has a broken flange and I'm going to silver solder a new base onto the flange. I'm also thinking of boring the venturi about .020 and taking about .010-.020 out of the intake, Haven't decided yet.
Terry

Originally Posted by Mitch Bunkin in PA

Even though my knowledge of Model “A’s” is very basic, I have this strong desire to get my 1930 Town Sedan back as close as possible to the way it was in 1930. That’s what motivated me to respond to the ad in the MARC magazine of Neal Frank, AKA “PASSING GAS CARBURETION.” (I also, recall Ford Barn carburetor comments by Pete Mendola in 2012) As we’re only 12 miles apart, Mr. Frank invited me to visit. In a lengthy conversation Neal explained the difference between remanufacturing (his specialty) and rebuilding/restoring a carburetor. I decided to ask Neal to remanufacture my carb. This takes 15 to 20 hours and costs 2 to 3 times more than a rebuild. Using this remanufacturing process Mr. Frank can resurrect a carb and the result is a unit of the proper year and month, functioning EXACTLY as designed. Neal usually has several phone conversations with the customer as the job progresses. Obviously prices vary depending on the condition of the carb. At completion, the customer receives a 35 point shop check-off list as well as a 5 to 8 page written report.
Neal uses original blueprints and a unique set of tooling & jigs for his milling machine. With my Zenith-2, Neal had to true up the joining surfaces of the carb as they did not meet his minimum requirement of a maximum .004 gap. All housing surfaces were resurfaced. All jet threads repaired/replaced and seats resurfaced. Neal finds that many new jets and original jets are not to specifications. The orifices must be concave and exactly the proper dimension. Jets must be exactly the proper height relative to the venturi and flow tested precisely at proper millimeters per minute. The float is buoyancy tested and weighed. Neal insists float weight must be within .1 gram of his requirement. He also resurfaced the integral seat of the gas control valve. This is only a tiny sample of the many procedures performed on my carb during the remanufacturing process. Besides frequent cleaning and bench testing during the process, Neal drive tested the carb traveling more than 60 miles and duplicating many different situations such as emergency stopping at an intersection, etc. This is followed by a third, 24 hour cool-down test.
My car now runs like new. The feeling of enhanced power is impressive and I can go up most hills in third gear. It doesn’t stall or oscillate at intersections (engine idle stays smooth) and it doesn’t leak even if I forget to turn off the gas line petcock when parked. I put this on the forum, because Neal doesn’t use computers very much. If you are a purist interested in a perfect or show quality remanufacturing, rather than a rebuild, Passing Gas is the place to go. If you send Neal a stamped, self addressed envelope, he’ll send you a copy of his 35 point remanufacturing check list. His address is 379 Sweetbriar Road, Perkasie, PA 18944.

[MrTube]

With all of the precision work he does to the carburetors the thing I have to ask is, is this really what an "A" ran like off the assembly line?

Seems important if that is truly what you are after.

[luckyal]

It seems to me that the carburetor alone will not make it run like the day it came off the assembly line. All the other motor parts would also have to be like new. Once again, how much did he charge ?
Al

[jkeesey]

If it takes 15-20 hours i can only assume it costs more than 3 times a rebuild. Until Mitch tells a roundabout price my heads in the clouds. I charge $100 for a basic rebuild and that amount of work he puts in has to be more than $300.

[luckyal]

I guess I just don't understand why we have not received a response to our question concerning how much it costs. Is it secret, is it embarrassing or whatever ? This thread is now closed for me !
Al

[jkeesey]

Give him a chance Al, he posted last night maybe he wont be back on til tonite.

[luckyal]

Mr. Keesey
That makes sense !
Thanks Al

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

We must remember that he is doing every dot & tiddle to make the carb proper for high points judging. There's a lots of little details that have coincide with a certain production date, etc. It's NOT just to make it run well. Like water pumps, does it supposed to have a ZINK adjusting nut, or a BRASS one??? Many old carbs have been "pieced up" over the years. Bill W.

[Mitch Bunkin in PA]

Hello everyone,
The remanufacture of my particular Zenith-2 carb. cost me $600.00 plus $63.26 in replacement parts. Parts cost depend upon which parts need to be replaced and whether you want carefully restored originals or carefully tested repros. Mr. Frank kindly permitted me to visit over several days to see those aspects of his process which are not “trade secrets,” so I know my job took 14 hours. Depending on where in the U.S.A. you live, you can estimate what the hourly rate should be for a skilled machinist. Upon receiving your carb. Mr. Frank will open it and carefully inspect it (fee deducted if you decide to let him do the job). This takes at least an hour. You will then get a lengthy phone call detailing what has to be done and approximate cost. Neal has 3 levels of service:
-1-A LA Carte-$75/$150. This is for a knowledgeable person who only needs help repairing one or two damaged parts, e.g. fuel intake surface, jet threads, etc. Price includes restoring one or 2 parts plus postage & insurance.
-2-MAJOR REPAIR-approx. $300/$400. Based on hours of work including static, dynamic, and cool down testing. Price includes postage and insurance.
-3-COMPLETE REMANUFACTURING-approx. $650. Price includes hours of work, all testing, postage and insurance.
Obviously I made a personal choice which is not everyone’s preference. However, I’m extremely satisfied with the results and with Mr. Frank’s professionalism.

[luckyal]

Thanks for the explanation. A significant investment but if you are satisfied that is all that matters. A rebuild serves my purposes very well but you are obviously much more of a purist than I am.
Again, I thank you.
Al

[1931 flamingo]

Post #1 "My car runs like new".

Not knocking you Mitch, but I don't think there's anybody here on the Barn that knows how they ran when new....................
Paul in CT

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Post #1 "My car runs like new".

Not knocking you Mitch, but I don't think there's anybody here on the Barn that knows how they ran when new....................
Paul in CT

That was kind of my point.
I doubt the carb on a "cheap affordable" car was perfect in every way.