The Ford Barn

JonC · 07-27-2015, 02:53 PM

Getting old is no fun, this is really dumb. I had my gauge cluster rebuilt a year or so ago and I don't remember who did it. I lost the paperwork so I have no clue. Whoever they were did a fantastic job and converted the cluster to 12V by using Runtz voltage reducers on each gauge. However the Battery gauge is unmarked. I don't know if it is a volt meter or ampmeter, I remember talking to them about it and I think it is an amp gauge, but I am not sure. Anyone know how to tell the differance? it has two posts on the back. I know it wasn't Baxter or Williamson and I think they were in the midwest. I tried looking on the internet for ford gauge rebuilders and nothing rang a bell their ad may have come from Hemmings. I think they had Ford in the name but... How's that for a screw up.

paul2748 · 07-27-2015, 07:35 PM

Voltmeters usually use only one post. But there may be a ground too.

flatford8 · 07-27-2015, 07:54 PM

I think an ampmeter has the needle in the middle so it moves left or right for the amount of charge or discharge. A volt meter would have the needle to the left then it move right for the amount of volts. MARK.

JonC · 07-28-2015, 07:01 AM

Thanks I think it is an ampmeter at least I will hook it up that way and see what happens.

TJ · 07-28-2015, 09:15 AM

If it has two posts on the back it is a battery condition gauge. If it is an amp gauge it has a metal loop on the back for the wire to pass through it. This is true of the original Ford gauges. Since yours has been converted it's anybody's guess what you have. What does the face of the gauge look like? Does the needle sit in the middle on zero with numbers on each side? Or does the needle sit to the left and move towards the right? If the needle sits on zero in the middle it's an amp gauge. If the needle sits to the left it's a battery condition gauge or possibly converted to a volt meter..

19Fordy · 07-28-2015, 11:06 AM

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Jon, Can you post photos of the gauge, front and back?
Don't just "take a chance" hooking it up. The BATT gauge shown below is a 1940 Ford VOLT METER. The needle moves from left to right. When driving down the road the needle stays in the green. Click on photo to enlarge.

JonC · 07-28-2015, 04:32 PM

19Forty, my gauge is very similar to what you have pictured and the back side has two posts equal in size maybe 3/16 diameter threaded. I don't think it is a volt gauge because I put 12V across the two posts and pegged it. If every thing else was converted to 12V I am sure they would not have left a 6V meter in for a voltage gauge. I'll post a picture of the gauge front and back.

JonC · 07-28-2015, 04:50 PM

Just noticed needle is in the middle must be converted to an amp gauge pictures should be here. Can not post picture

JSeery · 07-28-2015, 05:02 PM

You can send me the photo if you want me to post it for you. [email protected]
I would be sure before you wire it up, if 12 volts pegged it I wouldn't think running full amperage through it would be a good idea.

19Fordy · 07-28-2015, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonC

19Forty, my gauge is very similar to what you have pictured and the back side has two posts equal in size maybe 3/16 diameter threaded. I don't think it is a volt gauge because I put 12V across the two posts and pegged it. If every thing else was converted to 12V I am sure they would not have left a 6V meter in for a voltage gauge. I'll post a picture of the gauge front and back.

7/28/15 Here is what the backside of a stock 1940 DeLuxe gauge panel looks like. The BATT gauge is a voltmeter. If you pegged the gauge with 12V it would seem to me that the gauge has not been converted to operate on 12 V. What happens when you run 6 V through it? Here's a neat little tutorial.
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/...s-and-ammeters

TJ · 07-28-2015, 07:06 PM

Per the service bulletins, the empty post on the battery gauge goes to ground. The battery gauge has a totally different face than the amp meter. On the original gauges the amp gauge says AMP and the battery gauge says BATT.

JonC · 07-29-2015, 05:38 AM

Thanks guys I sent pictures to Jerry to post. Doing some reading it seems that a voltmeter will have high resistance and an ammeter will have very little so after my doctors appointment today I will get out my multimeter and find out what I have. Thanks for the tip 19Forty I should have read up on the differances between the gauges.

JSeery · 07-29-2015, 06:34 AM

Jon's pictures.

Sure looks like it is set up as an ammeter to me! The strap has been removed between the gauges and the needle is centered.

TJ · 07-29-2015, 09:26 AM

In the photo I see what appears to be a wiring diagram. Is that for the panel? The gauge face indicates the gauge is a battery condition gauge/voltmeter.

JSeery · 07-29-2015, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ

The gauge face indicates the gauge is a battery condition gauge/voltmeter.

That is what the gauge originally was, this whole panel has be rebuilt/modified. The gauge is now centered and appears to be wired as an ammeter. But that is the million dollar question!

Jon, what about the paper work, any hints as to what is what and how it wires up?

JonC · 07-29-2015, 11:16 AM

The wiring diagram in the photo is a copy of the original Ford wiring. At this point I am 99.9 percent sure it was converted to an ammeter, my son called last night and he rembers the conversation saying the needle won't move much when everything is charged, I am going out now to test it with the multi meter. Jon

JSeery · 07-29-2015, 11:20 AM

If the battery is charged there should be very little movement of the needle. It is showing the current to/from the battery.

barnfind · 07-29-2015, 11:37 AM

If it is a voltmeter and you hook it up as an ammeter it will probably smoke instantly.
You might be able to test it with low current voltage source like a 9V battery.

JonC · 07-29-2015, 11:45 AM

Problem solved the ohm meter shows almost no resistance (.04) it is an ammeter. Now I need to drink some Boost to help my memory or maybe start writing things down

I really want to thank this group for the help. I have never been accused of being well lets say sappy, but it is very nice to belong to a community of guys and girls that take the time to help each other out. Thank you, Jon

JonC · 07-29-2015, 11:55 AM

Each gauge except for the batt gauge has a seperate Runtz resistor. I am just wiring the pickup trying to use the original (repro) harness so as far as votage goes I am using a one wire alternator hidden in an old looking generator case (sold by Dennis Carpenter). I will send pictures out now.

19Fordy · 07-29-2015, 12:01 PM

Jon, Really glad you found out it was an AMP meter. Be sure and install a tag on the back of your gauge cluster telling that is is an AMP Meter or Ammeter.
Also when wiring up your guage cluster make sure your battery is disconnected so that the wire feeding the Ammeter won't touch any metal thereby "frying" your wiring harness. I made that mistake once.

scooder · 07-29-2015, 12:51 PM

Why did they put a battery indicator face behind the ameter? Seems a real odd thing to do. There is an amp gauge face for that dash cluster, l know cus mine is the same cluster but has the amp face in it, I think it's outa a 40 pickup.
Martin.

JonC · 07-29-2015, 01:57 PM

Scooder, most likely I told them I wanted it to look stock, any way I will tag the gauge, for the future.

07-27-2015, 02:53 PM	#1
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	40 p/u gauges rebuilt Getting old is no fun, this is really dumb. I had my gauge cluster rebuilt a year or so ago and I don't remember who did it. I lost the paperwork so I have no clue. Whoever they were did a fantastic job and converted the cluster to 12V by using Runtz voltage reducers on each gauge. However the Battery gauge is unmarked. I don't know if it is a volt meter or ampmeter, I remember talking to them about it and I think it is an amp gauge, but I am not sure. Anyone know how to tell the differance? it has two posts on the back. I know it wasn't Baxter or Williamson and I think they were in the midwest. I tried looking on the internet for ford gauge rebuilders and nothing rang a bell their ad may have come from Hemmings. I think they had Ford in the name but... How's that for a screw up.

07-27-2015, 07:35 PM	#2
paul2748 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Midland Park, NJ Posts: 4,003	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt Voltmeters usually use only one post. But there may be a ground too. __________________ 48 Ford Conv 56 Tbird 54 Ford Victoria

07-27-2015, 07:54 PM	#3
flatford8 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Lyman,ME. Posts: 2,654	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt I think an ampmeter has the needle in the middle so it moves left or right for the amount of charge or discharge. A volt meter would have the needle to the left then it move right for the amount of volts. MARK. __________________ I'm thinkin' about crankin' My ragged ol' truck up and haulin' myself into town. Billy Joe Shaver

07-28-2015, 07:01 AM	#4
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt Thanks I think it is an ampmeter at least I will hook it up that way and see what happens.

07-28-2015, 09:15 AM	#5
TJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Napa,California Posts: 6,074	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt If it has two posts on the back it is a battery condition gauge. If it is an amp gauge it has a metal loop on the back for the wire to pass through it. This is true of the original Ford gauges. Since yours has been converted it's anybody's guess what you have. What does the face of the gauge look like? Does the needle sit in the middle on zero with numbers on each side? Or does the needle sit to the left and move towards the right? If the needle sits on zero in the middle it's an amp gauge. If the needle sits to the left it's a battery condition gauge or possibly converted to a volt meter..

07-28-2015, 04:32 PM	#7
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt 19Forty, my gauge is very similar to what you have pictured and the back side has two posts equal in size maybe 3/16 diameter threaded. I don't think it is a volt gauge because I put 12V across the two posts and pegged it. If every thing else was converted to 12V I am sure they would not have left a 6V meter in for a voltage gauge. I'll post a picture of the gauge front and back.

07-28-2015, 04:50 PM	#8
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt Just noticed needle is in the middle must be converted to an amp gauge pictures should be here. Can not post picture

07-28-2015, 05:02 PM	#9
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt You can send me the photo if you want me to post it for you. [email protected] I would be sure before you wire it up, if 12 volts pegged it I wouldn't think running full amperage through it would be a good idea.

07-28-2015, 07:06 PM	#11
TJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Napa,California Posts: 6,074	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt Per the service bulletins, the empty post on the battery gauge goes to ground. The battery gauge has a totally different face than the amp meter. On the original gauges the amp gauge says AMP and the battery gauge says BATT.

07-29-2015, 05:38 AM	#12
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt Thanks guys I sent pictures to Jerry to post. Doing some reading it seems that a voltmeter will have high resistance and an ammeter will have very little so after my doctors appointment today I will get out my multimeter and find out what I have. Thanks for the tip 19Forty I should have read up on the differances between the gauges.

07-29-2015, 09:26 AM	#14
TJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Napa,California Posts: 6,074	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt In the photo I see what appears to be a wiring diagram. Is that for the panel? The gauge face indicates the gauge is a battery condition gauge/voltmeter.

07-29-2015, 11:16 AM	#16
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt The wiring diagram in the photo is a copy of the original Ford wiring. At this point I am 99.9 percent sure it was converted to an ammeter, my son called last night and he rembers the conversation saying the needle won't move much when everything is charged, I am going out now to test it with the multi meter. Jon

07-29-2015, 11:20 AM	#17
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt If the battery is charged there should be very little movement of the needle. It is showing the current to/from the battery.

07-29-2015, 11:37 AM	#18
barnfind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 427	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt If it is a voltmeter and you hook it up as an ammeter it will probably smoke instantly. You might be able to test it with low current voltage source like a 9V battery.

07-29-2015, 11:45 AM	#19
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt Problem solved the ohm meter shows almost no resistance (.04) it is an ammeter. Now I need to drink some Boost to help my memory or maybe start writing things down I really want to thank this group for the help. I have never been accused of being well lets say sappy, but it is very nice to belong to a community of guys and girls that take the time to help each other out. Thank you, Jon

07-29-2015, 11:55 AM	#20
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt Each gauge except for the batt gauge has a seperate Runtz resistor. I am just wiring the pickup trying to use the original (repro) harness so as far as votage goes I am using a one wire alternator hidden in an old looking generator case (sold by Dennis Carpenter). I will send pictures out now.

07-29-2015, 12:01 PM	#21
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 11,015	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt Jon, Really glad you found out it was an AMP meter. Be sure and install a tag on the back of your gauge cluster telling that is is an AMP Meter or Ammeter. Also when wiring up your guage cluster make sure your battery is disconnected so that the wire feeding the Ammeter won't touch any metal thereby "frying" your wiring harness. I made that mistake once.

07-29-2015, 12:51 PM	#22
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt Why did they put a battery indicator face behind the ameter? Seems a real odd thing to do. There is an amp gauge face for that dash cluster, l know cus mine is the same cluster but has the amp face in it, I think it's outa a 40 pickup. Martin.

07-29-2015, 01:57 PM	#23
JonC Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Central NY Posts: 629	Re: 40 p/u gauges rebuilt Scooder, most likely I told them I wanted it to look stock, any way I will tag the gauge, for the future.