Beltline painting issues

[Deluxe Delivery]

I am getting ready to paint the beltline on the Delivery black, against the Rubelite Red body. I will be using lacquer, as I have throughout the rest of the vehicle. ( I know, it's not the best , but I am comfortable with lacquer and really like the dull unrubbed, fresh-from-the-factory look.)Should I scuff the area I will be applying paint to, or is the unrubbed lacquer good for the next coat. If so, what grit paper ? 1200 ? 2000?
Are there any masking issues I should be aware of ? Any preferred tape?
Should I remove the tape right after painting or let it set ?
Finally, and this is not a final decision yet , but has anyone left their lacquer unrubbed out, as so many commercials were back in the day ? Is there a clear satin finish that would make maintenance easier ?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

While you can spray Lacquer directly over the other Lacquer, you are relying on the solvents to create a chemical bond instead of a mechanical bond which you get with scuffing. Therefore I would scuff the area you are going to paint with 600 grit wet/dry paper. If you are not going to rub-out the Rubelite, then do what we call "burn the tape" by first applying it to a clean surface and then removing it so it will remove some of the harshness of the glue before applying it to the fresh Rubelite paint. If you are going to buff the Rubelite, you can color-sand the areas adjacent to the belt with the 600 grit and then apply the tape as normal.

I might add that we generally like to use ¼" tape first as a way of ensuring we have a good crisp/defined edge at the belt and then follow it up with the ¾" tape over the top of that. As soon as the paint has flashed you can remove the tape/paper but leave the pulled edge until it has dried. Then it will just flake off. We generally pull the tape at a right angle away from the paint so as to shear the tape from the paint. Hope that answers your question(s).

.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

One other thought ....if you do not rub out the paint, how do you remove fingerprints and etc. from the unrubbed painted surface?? You cannot use wax or polish as it leaves a chalk that looks unsitely. Wax & Grease Remover is the way we have done it in the past which is very time consuming and difficult from making streaks.

Using any type of Clear-coat will allow the surface texture to be smoother and the depth of the paint to look somewhat phoney. Quite frankly, the look is not all that great IMHO just because people have come to expect at least some sort of shine. There was a 1930 AA truck in fine-point judging out in San Diego this year that has a textured Lacquer painted finish and I overheard criticizm by folks who just didn't understand what the restorer was trying to achieve. My thoughts are make sure this is the avenue you want to pursue.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

One other thought ....if you do not rub out the paint, how do you remove fingerprints and etc. from the unrubbed painted surface?? You cannot use wax or polish as it leaves a chalk that looks unsitely. Wax & Grease Remover is the way we have done it in the past which is very time consuming and difficult from making streaks.

Using any type of Clear-coat will allow the surface texture to be smoother and the depth of the paint to look somewhat phoney. Quite frankly, the look is not all that great IMHO just because people have come to expect at least some sort of shine. There was a 1930 AA truck in fine-point judging out in San Diego this year that has a textured Lacquer painted finish and I overheard criticizm by folks who just didn't understand what the restorer was trying to achieve. My thoughts are make sure this is the avenue you want to pursue.

You are the second person that has indicated to me that the satin urethane paints can't be flowed smooth. Is there something wrong with the flattening additive that causes this? Mine flowed wonderfully but that was seventeen years ago!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I dunno honestly because I never used the old flattener but the modern stuff is actually a Talc powder that is to replace some of the reducer. What creates some issues is if you try to use reducer, the powder supposedly absorbs some of the solvents. Ironically we use it in hi-build primers w/o adverse effects but those are sanded after spraying. Did you sand your clear after spraying?

[Marco Tahtaras]

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I didn't use any clear. I flattened the Lombard everywhere except exterior panels. I also used three different gloss levels in the black for the chassis and all flowed well. I waxed much of the black on the chassis initially to make it easier to dust off the first year. That was likely a waste of time but made sense to me.

[robert shreveport]

Brent what color is the coupe you have pictured?

[Deluxe Delivery]

Thanks, Brent.
I'm still unsure how I want to go with the shine and the issues you bring up are why. ( I go back and forth but am leaning towards buffing). I just love those factory photos of the satin finished commercials contrasting the gloss enamel fenders ! Thanks

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Robert, that Coupe is Washington & Riviera --which is unauthentic for a closed car but the Golden Rule applied in that instance (the man with the 'Gold' ruled on which colors he wanted.), ....and it was the only pic I could find at a moments notice that one could clearly see the ¼ inch layout tape.

Marco, I misunderstood what you were asking. Generally speaking everything we shoot here is single-stage urethane paint. We do not use Clear unless it is over woodgrain or on a vehicle that is painted in metalic. We do use flattener in urethane and it will flow out reasonably well however two or three things play into this. Generally the areas sprayed with the flattened paint have been "based" with the regular "unflattened" paint and the flattened paint is only fogged over the top. What we have noticed is the more coats of flattened paint, the depth changes and gets glossier. What I was trying to comment on was when Don mentioned his thoughts about spraying a satin clear over the finish.

Don, we struggled for nearly a month trying to paint a '29 roadster pick-up in dark flattened urethane (Rock Moss Green) trying to replicate that unbuffed Lacquer look. If Marco recalls, I even spoke with him by phone regarding this. We finally threw in the towel and gave the customer about 100 hours of free labor of us trying and we sprayed the exterior in regular unflattened urethane. What we encountered was when we sprayed everything in pieces, if one piece received 3 coats and another piece received 4 coats, the texture and the depth were not the same between the two pieces. Even with all the pieces in the booth simultaneously, it was difficult to keep everything the same and make it trash-free or without blemishes. Therefore what we do is fog on the flattened paint in areas that are not adjoining. Below is a picture of a pick-up painted in Rubelite where the inside of the bed and tailgate were painted with flattened paint at the same time, the interior was painted at a different time, the cowl at yet a different time as was the bottom and the bottom side of the hood. It is labor intensive to do it this way but the painter can stay fresh mentally breaking it up in sections. (I guess it is difficult to discern between the flattened areas (firewall, interior, etc.) between the exterior unflattened paint.)

.

[Deluxe Delivery]

Well, I decided to take the plunge. I bought 1/4 " blue 3m tape which I highly recommend for this job. It stretches around curves better than paper tape and holds a nice sharp edge. About an hour after I shot it in lacquer, I removed all the tape, pulling the blue back on itself. That gave it a nice crisp tear of the paint. I found that to be better than a 90 degrees pull-off. Let it sit a few days and the edge "healed" to a real smoothe edge. Then the big reward...the rub out. WOW ! So much for the original unrubbed commercial appearance...this baby glows ! This is what I like about lacquer, sweat, spit, polish, and BAM a shine like a mirror ! Thanks to all who offered tricks and encouragement, I am real pleased with my amateur results. ( And if you can't please yourself, who are you doing this for ? )

[1931 flamingo]

Very, very nice. You've been busy...
paul in CT

[J Franklin]

An un-polished job from the factory would over a little time become rubbed out due to constant washing and drying with a towel anyway.

[Bob/Kansas City]

Deluxe Delivery your paint jpob looks great! Can I ask what you used to rub the lacquer out with? That shine is "just right" in my opinion.

[Deluxe Delivery]

Sure, first I wet color sanded with 200 grit. My lacquer was very smoothe to begin with, as I reduced the final coats from "colorful" down to very thin and transparent. I think Henry did this too. Then I hand rubbed with regular ole Turtle wax rubbing compound and a soft, water soaked terry cloth washcloth ( the size is just right). I rub until it shines and then follow up with a very soft aged bath towel. Then I buff with a Schlegel "round up" pad, I like the 1 "pile better than the longer pile. It might be wool or synthetic, but mine are very old, although new old stock and work like a magic wand. Then I follow with Meguire's #9 swirl remover...more magic ! Finally, it's 3m Imperial hand glaze for a mirror like shine .
I too like this more original, honest shine. It looks right on A's, unlike the dipped-in-plastic look so popular these days. I am sure I have crossed some kinda lines with my mixing of products and techniques, but it works for me and it is very rewarding, seeing your, in my case, years of work start to glow like a Hershey sunrise. Thanks for the compliment !

[Deluxe Delivery]

2000 grit, sorry

[Deluxe Delivery]

Happy with the rubbing out progress, very self-validating and rewarding. Here is today's panel. The Vermilion strip can't be far off !

[hbleadsled]

WOW you did your home work well a very nice job. Harold central coast Ca.

[RcT]

Originally Posted by Deluxe Delivery

Well, I decided to take the plunge. I bought 1/4 " blue 3m tape which I highly recommend for this job. It stretches around curves better than paper tape and holds a nice sharp edge. About an hour after I shot it in lacquer, I removed all the tape, pulling the blue back on itself. That gave it a nice crisp tear of the paint. I found that to be better than a 90 degrees pull-off. Let it sit a few days and the edge "healed" to a real smoothe edge. Then the big reward...the rub out. WOW ! So much for the original unrubbed commercial appearance...this baby glows ! This is what I like about lacquer, sweat, spit, polish, and BAM a shine like a mirror ! Thanks to all who offered tricks and encouragement, I am real pleased with my amateur results. ( And if you can't please yourself, who are you doing this for ? )

I would definately say you have graduated from "amateur" status... looks "Professional" to me.

[rogeroadster]

That really looks very nice! Is acrylic lacquer readily available these days?

[Deluxe Delivery]

I have seen it advertised by Bill Hirsch, I think, but expect it is very pricey. The Red I bought 15 years ago, and I use the 5 gallon drum size "gun cleaner" lacquer thinner ! The black is from my father's unheated garage when it has resided since the early 70'S ! I have quite a collection of old lacquer and find that it can always be thinned down and brought back to life.